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Mobius Wyvern
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1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 02:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Might as well limit the number of Heavy Suits you can have on a map, because they're so good at sniping with those Forge Guns. Can't forget about those. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Might as well limit the number of Heavy Suits you can have on a map, because they're so good at sniping with those Forge Guns. Can't forget about those. forge guns just need nerfed tbh, maybe antivehicle FOR SURE anti-infantry. ...I guess you didn't realize I was being sarcastic.
In all seriousness, though, someone mentioned the Starhawk beta as a good example of what we don't want to do here. The Devs were doing nerfs based on community feedback without all the assets in, and suddenly a new asset would be completely OP because the old one was thought of as OP due to it's counter not being in the game yet.
The last thing we need to be doing is tossing down major nerfs on assets when there could be another asset to counter them still in the pipe. As well, you're forgetting the factor of price, which plays a huge role. With that Marauder hull going from 65k up to 1.2mil, operators are gonna be a lot more cautious about calling those down, and we'll like see a lot less of them. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
I'm from every videogame, just stating what it's like, I've played EVE as well and several other MMORPG's I see why you like them I get it but meta gameplay will make this game a failure, you need good gameplay in order to have a good game on console not just meta game like most MMORPGs
So you're saying that console gamers can't handle the meta game? That doesn't seem like a very charitable assessment. Also, I really hope you aren't actually having problems with the militia tanks, because I can strip the shield off a Soma with my CreoDron. Those paper tanks are worthless, and damn easy to kill with pretty much anything. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
I'm from every videogame, just stating what it's like, I've played EVE as well and several other MMORPG's I see why you like them I get it but meta gameplay will make this game a failure, you need good gameplay in order to have a good game on console not just meta game like most MMORPGs
So you're saying that console gamers can't handle the meta game? That doesn't seem like a very charitable assessment. Also, I really hope you aren't actually having problems with the militia tanks, because I can strip the shield off a Soma with my CreoDron. Those paper tanks are worthless, and damn easy to kill with pretty much anything. I've had my ps3 since launch, yes I'm saying console players can't handle meta game. people like you or me that play on console might be able to, but the majority(CoD/BF3 players) will not care for meta game. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd write them off. Through some old co-workers of mine, I've actually talked to quite a few people who've lamented the state of your standard FPS, namely that you cap out and then all the fun is gone. For instance, interest in Planetside 2, even considering how the first wasn't exactly stellar, is already skyrocketing due to their support of large-scale vehicle and infantry combat. Likewise, I have another friend of mine that was lamenting her inability to play PS2 due to her older computer, and not having the funds to upgrade. However, she does have a PS3, and is looking forward to Dust for the same reason that PC gamers are looking forward to Planetside 2. Part of why market analysts have been saying that the console market is stagnating is because the only kinds of shooters you can get on a console are primarily 16-player games with a limited RPG style leveling system that cap out after a certain number of levels. You just play the same maps over and over, and now and then the company will release more that you can buy for more money.
Dust, as a Free-to-Play MMOFPS offers a large-scale, meta gaming experience similar to what you can find on the PC, but accessable to console gamers, who have had nothing like this up until now. Even people who don't come into Dust looking for that aspect of the game will be drawn in. Some won't, but enough will. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:Arbitrary restrictions and rules designed to make things "Fair" and "Balanced" are stupid, gamey, kitchy, (pick your bad adjective) and have no place in a sandbox war game.
As has been said in this thread already, you might as well restrict everything to some kind of "balanced" level, like drop uplinks or nano hives or swarm launchers or heavy machine guns or scout suits or whatever.
If you want an arena balanced arcade shooter, go elsewhere.
We don't want your campy "balance" rule sets in our universe. They are dumb.
If a team wants to use the money to field a tank for everyone, then they should feel free. And if the enemy is worth a dam they will swap into AV setups and drink their tears while slaughtering tanks all day.
The only restriction to how many things you can put down should be how much you can afford to lose.
This is war, not kiddy holdyourhandhappyfuntimes shooter game time. Grow up and fight like an adult or go back to CoD. LISTEN TO ME. IF YOU WANT A SUCCESFUL GAME YOU NEED TO HAVE NOOBS PLAYING IT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THIS IS CONSOLEI KNOW CCP THOUGHT IT WAS CLEVER TO MAKE THIS EFFECT EVE AND MAKE IT ALMOST SUCCESSFUL JUST FROM THAT. BUT LISTEN TO ME. NOT. EVERYONE. FROM. EVE. WILL. BUY. A. PS3. FOR. THIS. GAME. YOU NEED IT TO BE BALANCED IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE LIKE US TO PLAY! WE WILL GLADLY BE YOUR WORK HORSES FOR A VAST EMPIRE IF THE GAME IS GOOD META GAME MEANS NOTHING IF I CAN'T GET TO THE TOP WITH SKILL Yeah, but you can get to the top with skill. I mean, to even get an HAV, you have to be a mediocre player for ages, or be a damn good player and get one rapidly. But it'll still die to two heavies with Forge Guns. Also, the idea isn't for all the EVE players to buy PS3s, its for the noobs to be brought in, get a sense of the scale, and then work to improve their skill in whatever they want to do, to thereby train their skills higher and unlock better equipment. I don't think this game is going to be as much of a turnoff to all new players as you assume it's going to be. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Slightly off topic:
I like you, ALM1GHTY STATIUS.
I don't agree with you, but you aren't afraid to put your viewpoints out there, and you aren't afraid to defend them. We could honestly use more people like that in here to try and offset all the people that just whine. I had you marked as one of them, but you actually seem ok. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
LISTEN TO ME.
IF YOU WANT A SUCCESFUL GAME YOU NEED TO HAVE NOOBS PLAYING IT. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THIS IS CONSOLE
I KNOW CCP THOUGHT IT WAS CLEVER TO MAKE THIS EFFECT EVE AND MAKE IT ALMOST SUCCESSFUL JUST FROM THAT.
BUT LISTEN TO ME.
NOT. EVERYONE. FROM. EVE. WILL. BUY. A. PS3. FOR. THIS. GAME.
YOU NEED IT TO BE BALANCED IN ORDER FOR PEOPLE LIKE US TO PLAY! WE WILL GLADLY BE YOUR WORK HORSES FOR A VAST EMPIRE IF THE GAME IS GOOD META GAME MEANS NOTHING IF I CAN'T GET TO THE TOP WITH SKILL
1. STOP YELLING AT ME 2. "Balance" is not what you think it is. Like I said, if you want an ARENA style FPS, go elsewhere. Balance in an sandbox is called balance of opportunity. Not balance of outcome. 3. Meta game is something that you don't even know that you know nothing about. When you are actually leading a campaign of battles to conquer dozens of systems and have hundreds of other real people following your orders, then you can tell me that "SkILL IS KING!" cause it isn't, leadership and metagaming strategy is king, skill is what you tie your shoes with. Skill is the only thing that matters. I, the other good players, the cod players, the battlefield players, the halo players, DO NOT give a $HIT about meta, we want a game that's FUN not a game about taking mindless orders from a leader or a game where strat's and numbers can conquer all, it's not balanced when you have so many numbers we can't protect ourselves, even you must realize that. I also don't understand why you would define following orders as not being fun. My best games in BF2142 always came with the assistance of a capable Commander. I mean, do you really want to be playing a match with a few hundred people with some arbitrary vehicle count that has most of the group running around on foot to get from place to place? The idea is that vehicles are how you get yourself to facilities and fight for ground along the way, while you're on foot inside, kind of like how they've shown Planetside 2 to operate. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
I think noobs are going to get pubsmashed while people like me are locked in high sec. and the game will die nearly instantly. just like MAG.
You are forgetting something important. Even if FPS players hate it and quit, this game is tied to Eve. Eve players will use it at least a little bit as long as it affects their bottom line. And Eve players make CCP enough money to be able to grow DUST slowly for a LONG time. This is not a flash in the pan FPS game like CoD black ops or something. CCP have staying power and they won't let it die even is spoiled FPS gamers don't like it. For Christs sake the game is free to download and free to play. I think they are gonna be fine. there gonna be so rich they won't spend money on the game because of their unlimited ISK banks because we = no risk compared to what you can make in EVE in about 14 seconds. they won't buy anything, CCP eventually shuts servers down and put's them towards EVE so you lag less. You're forgetting something. Planet based colonies, which YOU will be fighting over, produce Starbase fuel. Starbases are both the only means of harvesting moon minerals, which are essential for Tech II production, and holding labs and construction facilities for building their ships and components, AND are the only means to produce Supercarriers and Titans, the largest, most expensive, and most powerful assets in the game
We can't AFFORD to ignore you. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:Traynor Youngs wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:
Skill is the only thing that matters. I, the other good players, the cod players, the battlefield players, the halo players, DO NOT give a $HIT about meta, we want a game that's FUN not a game about taking mindless orders from a leader or a game where strat's and numbers can conquer all, it's not balanced when you have so many numbers we can't protect ourselves, even you must realize that.
A couple of problems with your argument. False dilemma saying that good players are the ones that play halo/CoD/BF etc. Not a perfect comparison or always true in either sense. Saying good players don't care about meta, again, speak for yourself cause its not always true. Fun, thats true. Saying following orders is not fun is not always true. Have you ever worked as a team under an inspirational leader and accomplished something as a team that you couldn't accomplish alone? It was fun right? Stats and numbers don't conquer all, but skill with understanding the stats and numbers can. Just the way it works in real life. Balance doesn't mean you are always safe from being steamrolled. Balance means that you have a fair chance to steamroll back. Skill is the only thing that matters in stupid gamey arcade shooters. in real life combat (which I have been in) its about skill, intelligence, strategy, intuition, teamwork, blind stupid luck, and a little bit of street smarts. Your arguments are infantile, vague, full of logical loopholes, and unconvincing. I'm speaking for the majority, and trust me this is what they want. the good FPSers dont care about meta! we just wanna smash the other good players! but we want them to have the same chance we do. I've played countless clan battles in MAG(I figure this is the best example because of a size of 32 v 32) and won many, lead many, and been surprised by victories. in a game that took SKILL to win. real life is irrelevant in video games stats really don't matter because you can be better now, or you could be a huge *** that sits in the red lined turret the entire game and gets a 129 KDR . you can be steamrolled in any blanaced game if the other team is more SKILLFUL than you. why play a game if the only reason I win is because I have better equipment than the other player? again, real life is irrelevant. I notice that you failed to comment on my statement as to the essential nature of Dust in EVE Online. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 03:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Another excellent point. See, Planetside 2 is massive scale PvP only, whereas Dust will actually allow you to have those smaller balanced matches, or even do some co-op against NPCs if you want. |
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 04:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Also, we only have 12 man teams right now. Using 4 tanks is a great way to lose the match, because most of those turret gunners never get out to hack. |
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