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Rhadiem
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.07.26 19:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
In eve, all vehicles have Shields, Armor, Structure.
In Dust they magically are held together with just shields and armor, but no structure.
In other words, the armor repper that is 99% broken can magically self-repair itself, and the rest of the ship.
I'm not sure why CCP did this for vehicles, but it would be nice if we had at least a little structure.
This could also solve the endless burning issues of shield tanks that lost a little armor, as well as the armor tankers that burst into flames over and over again as their armor ebbs and flows.
Flames are serious. They melt things and cook pilots and passengers. Lack of armor doesn't mean I should be melting. |
Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
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Posted - 2012.07.26 19:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Greetings,
Rhadiem wrote:I'm not sure why CCP did this for vehicles, but it would be nice if we had at least a little structure.
Agree. This would actually strengthen armor tanking a bit more and give a clear target for causing dropships to explode. Besides, we have this for Dropsuits, ships, stations, outposts, POS and drones... Makes sense for vehicles to have it as well.
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Damon Romani
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.07.27 00:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Agreed. Armor tanking is much riskier when you don't have structure to give you a little bit of room for error. |
ilafey
29
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Posted - 2012.07.27 00:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
I wantz structure |
Jeremiad R Doomprofit
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
59
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Posted - 2012.07.27 01:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
I am also in favor of a little structure. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
915
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Posted - 2012.07.27 02:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Add me to the list - and while we are at it put on the dropsuits too, please, at least a little. I feel dirty running around with literall 0 HP in armor sometimes... |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1170
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Posted - 2012.07.27 06:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
There is structure, it is just so trivial it's not worth a bar at all. I think a marauder might have all of 100 structure points. |
Bnintee
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2012.07.27 07:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree, adding structure makes sense to armor tanking and also how the EVE universe works. |
Khun-Al
135
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Posted - 2012.07.27 07:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes but for dropsuits too. Why is a human dead if its armor is broken? |
Shado Jo
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.27 08:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
If a person has a machine gun fired at them their "structure" wouldn't hold out long enough to be relevant. I agree with adding structure to vehicles; would give armor tanks a chance. I also think that if a vehicle is destroyed, the people inside the vehicle should remain protected by their dropsuits and survive the explosion. This would be analogous to your pod surviving when your ship gets blown up in EVE. |
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Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.07.27 08:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Damon Romani wrote:Agreed. Armor tanking is much riskier when you don't have structure to give you a little bit of room for error.
Really, Armour tanking without structure, is really hull tanking, and only an idiot will deliberately hull tank :P |
Valen Alabas
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
8
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Posted - 2012.07.27 08:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Structure makes sense for vehicles.
They have a chassis and that is a structure to put Armor on.
Besides in Eve you have structure aswell
For Dropsuits it makes no sense i think.
You kill me easily in underwear. *g*
Cheers
Valen |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.07.27 08:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Khun-Al wrote:Yes but for dropsuits too. Why is a human dead if its armor is broken?
It isn't, but a clone is useless when it's trapped inside a dead suit of armour that's too heavy to lift without power.
So you shut it down and move to the next one. |
Mulligan Rosewater
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
would like to see structure added to vehicals as well it makes no sense lore wise for vehicals to not have them, because all eve ships, structures, and ect have it. So why is it not on vehicals, so add me to the list of people who feel they need structure to increase thier effectiveness. Also i feel vehicals die to quickly compared to most eve ships. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.07.27 11:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mulligan Rosewater wrote:would like to see structure added to vehicals as well it makes no sense lore wise for vehicals to not have them, because all eve ships, structures, and ect have it. So why is it not on vehicals, so add me to the list of people who feel they need structure to increase thier effectiveness. Also i feel vehicals die to quickly compared to most eve ships.
It would also solve a few other problems CCP must have...
Take the old build, with the two stage skirmish map; Crater Lake.
The current MCC is Caldari, it certainly look like it is, and it is heavy on shields.
If the Mcc have to leave the first stage as soon as its shields are gone, only Caldari will ever stand a change of attacking.
Adding structure to it, you can say that as soon as both shield and armour is gone, the MCC is still far away enough to retreat while in the first stage.
In the second stage, which we are playing now exclusively, it is too close to be able to pull away, and will die once structure is gone as well.
For vehicles, they can use the structure to decide when to start smoking and burn, like in EVE. For Gallente vehicles the smoke we get as soon as we hit armour. And we ALWAYS hit armour, is quite frankly incredibly distracting, and makes aiming very hard.
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 14:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
This is an excellent idea. +1 |
Usikava Shawley
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.07.27 14:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
+1 for structure
When my dropship says it's 0 armor and I'm still flying around repping my self looks really odd u know
It will give me a clear vision of how much I can live in close combat and air-2-air situations with my repers going cause now in most cases when my armor drops to 0 my ship start to fall but some times it doesn't and I can keep it "alive" with a 152k worth dropship it matters something... |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.27 15:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Khun-Al wrote:Yes but for dropsuits too. Why is a human dead if its armor is broken?
The idea is that we're using weapons so powerful that a single shot to your unarmored body is enough to kill. Also, I think there actually -is- a health amount in the game, because I've noticed that I can take a glancing blow with no armor, and I'll be stuck with the heart-pounding grey-screen effect even after my armor is repaired. |
Maken Tosch
263
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
I guess it wouldn't hurt to add structure (hull) as well. But don't forget that structure is usually the weakest. |
Iceyburnz
316
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Structure would be good. Then ww, as real men, could structure tank.
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Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Also, I think there actually -is- a health amount in the game, because I've noticed that I can take a glancing blow with no armor, and I'll be stuck with the heart-pounding grey-screen effect even after my armor is repaired.
There is that, but also there is the "death sequence" When you "die", you will notice that it says 'Commit suicide'? The reason for this is that your suit is dead, but you are still alive within the suit. This is what the Nanite injectors are for, not to raise you from the dead, but to repair your armor enough to function. This is also why sometimes, you will be out and out dead... You take enough damage that your shield, armor, and HP (structure) are completely gone... no Nanite injector for you.
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Sohkar Adelis
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
61
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jeremiad R Doomprofit wrote:I am also in favor of a little structure.
Thats what she said. |
Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Agreed. We need another layer before death. WIthout structure, shield tanking will always be superior.
THere is a reason no one structure tanks in Eve, its cause you have nothing underneath it. Armor in dust is currently the same, nothing underneath it. |
Kitt 514
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
94
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Apparently most people didn't notice this but...
VEHICLES DO have structure.
And infantry DO have health.
The amounts are so small however, that you don't notice it.
Its more prevalent at the beginning of a build when everybody has less skills, but there's been several times where I've run out of armour, and survived. The idea though is that the weapons we're using are so powerful that one hit by essentially any of them would kill any unprotected soldier.
Its happened a few times where i've taken a little bit of splash damage at 0 armour 0 shields though.
Your screen actually loses colour, and the bottom left indicator goes bright red.
Its a feature. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Funny side note:
This is the description from the EVE Online "Hull Tanking" Certificate:
Quote:This certificate represents an elite level of competence in the infamous practice of "hull tanking". It certifies that the holder can fully use all modules relating to hull tanking. The holder is aware that "real men hull tank", and also that hull tanking is really dumb. With this certificate, you've maximised your ability to rely on your structural systems to absorb damage, although hopefully you're smart enough to know what a daft idea that is.
My main has that one :P |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.07.27 20:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
If there is hull/health i wouldnt mind if it was 'displayed' a bit while it may not have a bar it could have a small line at the bottom.
Hull/health needs to however have bonus damage against it as if it had no resistance, get into the hull layer and you're good as gone undersustained fire.
For reasons of armor tanking I have to agree this emergency buffer is needed.
Lore wise Asno explains partially why hull isnt too logical on infantry. |
Carilito
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
345
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Posted - 2012.07.28 00:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
UP there with sliced bread BUMPED
Structure is the hp of the un armored and unshielded motor vehicle; its the part that drives and what not, if it gets in crash its done. HAVS, LAVS and infantry in the real world have a base model. Shields and armor are like the icing on the cake and are meant to buffer the motor vehicle from lets call them bullets. When you blow apart the shields and armor you start to mess with the actual motor vehicle. Once shields are gone you are basically shooting the electronics engine and what ever wheels it gets around on. Shields Armor and Structure are three very different things and CCP should know better then to just ditch one. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.07.28 00:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Carilito wrote:UP there with sliced bread BUMPED
Structure is the hp of the un armored and unshielded motor vehicle; its the part that drives and what not, if it gets in crash its done. HAVS, LAVS and infantry in the real world have a base model. Shields and armor are like the icing on the cake and are meant to buffer the motor vehicle from lets call them bullets. When you blow apart the shields and armor you start to mess with the actual motor vehicle. Once shields are gone you are basically shooting the electronics engine and what ever wheels it gets around on. Shields Armor and Structure are three very different things and CCP should know better then to just ditch one.
I'm pretty sure our soldiers have health, but that it doesn't regenerate. |
Carilito
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
345
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Posted - 2012.07.28 01:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Carilito wrote:UP there with sliced bread BUMPED
Structure is the hp of the un armored and unshielded motor vehicle; its the part that drives and what not, if it gets in crash its done. HAVS, LAVS and infantry in the real world have a base model. Shields and armor are like the icing on the cake and are meant to buffer the motor vehicle from lets call them bullets. When you blow apart the shields and armor you start to mess with the actual motor vehicle. Once shields are gone you are basically shooting the electronics engine and what ever wheels it gets around on. Shields Armor and Structure are three very different things and CCP should know better then to just ditch one. I'm pretty sure our soldiers have health, but that it doesn't regenerate.
This is the future, a future where we have a chip that can transfer consciousness; its not far out to say they could do some short term "patch work" for a clone that could be mechanically similar to regenerating structure with plausible lore. Its nothing he can live on but a "medi gel" equivalent module is definitely in the scope of the eve and dust universe. When the battles over he keels over and re spawns into a new clone and hes a new boy. Even today you hear about crazy drugged out people that can fight and take wound from several people with out slowing; Im sure in eve there is some super drug thats worse that would be perfect for a dust clone. Isn't then mentality burn out the clone and get a new one anyway. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.07.28 03:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
I think they already there and just don't have a bar. I have had armour go to zero at end of close fight, my shield regenerated but I had a red throbbing screen till I respawned. If it is there it would be nice to show it on the hud or fitting screen. And the damage control module should give it a big boost in resistance. Unlocking the best dcm was about half the elite hull tanking certificate. |
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Dante Brown
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.07.28 04:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
Khun-Al wrote:Yes but for dropsuits too. Why is a human dead if its armor is broken?
Because we are the dropsuits.
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Rhadiem
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
496
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Posted - 2012.07.28 06:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kitt 514 wrote:Apparently most people didn't notice this but...
VEHICLES DO have structure.
And infantry DO have health.
The amounts are so small however, that you don't notice it.
Its more prevalent at the beginning of a build when everybody has less skills, but there's been several times where I've run out of armour, and survived. The idea though is that the weapons we're using are so powerful that one hit by essentially any of them would kill any unprotected soldier.
Its happened a few times where i've taken a little bit of splash damage at 0 armour 0 shields though.
Your screen actually loses colour, and the bottom left indicator goes bright red.
Its a feature.
Are you sure it's not just a rounding issue with the display? |
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.07.28 11:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
-9000 for structure.
my shield tanked eryx logistics dropship is perfect the way it is. a burning ball of HELL at 0% armor and 100% shield coming down at full ramming speed on top of your head with two gunners blasting away blindly through the flames. |
zekina zek
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.07.28 11:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
yea its been a few times for me too also that had 0%/0% but i think its the shield regen kicking in last second, not strucure. |
Ire's thug
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
272
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Posted - 2012.07.28 16:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
there is structure in the game. Its your body and at the speed and power at which those bullets are flying... why even put the bar in there? |
Daalzebul Del'Armgo
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
48
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Posted - 2012.07.28 16:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
This certificate represents an Elite level of competency in the Infamous practice of "hull Tanking". It certifies that the holder can fully use all modules relating to hull tanking. The holder is aware that "real men hull tank", and also that hull tanking is really dumb! With this certificate you've maximised your ability to rely on your structural systems to absorb damage, although hopefully you're smart enough to know what a daft idea that is.
but i still want to try it!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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