DUST Search - All this endless Militia gear..

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

GM Unicorn wrote:

The current state of the game, including starting gears and so on, it's helping us to understand what's wrong and what's good. I see the point of the OP but we cannot give to new players a simple Scrambler Pistol and say "Go, earn your stuff!". Would be boring and not helpful for testing purposes.
The starting gear is defo something that will be tailor made on your feedbacks and feelings combined to ours.
I'll keep the topic open and with a nice +FAV because of that ;)

tl;dr
MOAR OPINIONS!!111!1oneone1!1!!eleven

Well, I always figured the militia vehicles were solely for testing purposes, as you just confirmed, and I think that's the way it should be. A free racial LAV seems perfectly reasonable to help a new player, and I would hope that that at least remains after launch.

As far as the militia loadouts we have right now, though, I'm perfectly fine with them. They allow a brand new player to have some choices if their teams needs different weaponry on the field, and all the weapons available to them are rather UP compared to the kind of gear most of us are running around with, so what they're getting for free isn't really game-breaking or anything. I mean, my Sagaris can take 6 guys with militia swarm launchers like its nothing.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.07.22 12:48:00 - [1] - Quote I'm starting to wish that people just started out without all this free gear. If you want to drive a tank.. train it. A dropship? train it. Swarm Launcher? train it! I'm ok with dropsuits and support modules, but endless bits of everything just seems like too much. Give people a dropsuit of choice, support modules, an AR and a LAV and let them go from there. EVE gives us free noob ships, but not noob battleships, noob carriers, noob titans.. noob stations.. You can run around in your skivvies doing nothing and still earn ISK, I don't see why people can't pay (and skill-up) for the more useful stuff. Thoughts?
Grit Breather BetaMax. 660	Posted - 2012.07.22 12:51:00 - [2] - Quote In the current phase of the beta CCP are collecting statistical data regarding vehicle balances. In order for this to work they need as many vehicles as possible fielded and they need people to come up with usage tactics. When the game is released it will be as you said. Everyone will have maybe a single free suit and that's it. Anything else will need to be bought.
Jehaleleel Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 3	Posted - 2012.07.22 12:51:00 - [3] - Quote Actually think were not getting it free after release :-) I figured it as part of the testing, like us getting loads of sk and iskies to play with
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.07.22 12:52:00 - [4] - Quote Interesting, is this theory or real CCP wording?
Grit Breather BetaMax. 660	Posted - 2012.07.22 13:13:00 - [5] - Quote I think it's real but for the life of me, I can't find it.

GM Unicorn 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 467	Posted - 2012.07.22 14:06:00 - [6] - Quote The current state of the game, including starting gears and so on, it's helping us to understand what's wrong and what's good. I see the point of the OP but we cannot give to new players a simple Scrambler Pistol and say "Go, earn your stuff!". Would be boring and not helpful for testing purposes. The starting gear is defo something that will be tailor made on your feedbacks and feelings combined to ours. I'll keep the topic open and with a nice +FAV because of that ;) tl;dr MOAR OPINIONS!!111!1oneone1!1!!eleven

Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.07.22 14:19:00 - [7] - Quote GM Unicorn wrote: The current state of the game, including starting gears and so on, it's helping us to understand what's wrong and what's good. I see the point of the OP but we cannot give to new players a simple Scrambler Pistol and say "Go, earn your stuff!". Would be boring and not helpful for testing purposes. The starting gear is defo something that will be tailor made on your feedbacks and feelings combined to ours. I'll keep the topic open and with a nice +FAV because of that ;) tl;dr MOAR OPINIONS!!111!1oneone1!1!!eleven Well, I always figured the militia vehicles were solely for testing purposes, as you just confirmed, and I think that's the way it should be. A free racial LAV seems perfectly reasonable to help a new player, and I would hope that that at least remains after launch. As far as the militia loadouts we have right now, though, I'm perfectly fine with them. They allow a brand new player to have some choices if their teams needs different weaponry on the field, and all the weapons available to them are rather UP compared to the kind of gear most of us are running around with, so what they're getting for free isn't really game-breaking or anything. I mean, my Sagaris can take 6 guys with militia swarm launchers like its nothing.
Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.07.22 14:39:00 - [8] - Quote I think we should keep the Militia load outs free. It gives people the chance to try out the style that they feel the most comfortable with before they invest a lot of sp into a certain branch. And it's not like the guys with Militia gear are any serious threat, they still get destroyed 98% of the time. Militia vehicles are another matter though. I think vehicles should at least cost some isk. Especially considering the 'crush' ability from a dropship, this would encourage new players to only crush others with their dropship since they won't be getting any kills with any other militia weapon.
KingBlade82 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2012.07.22 14:46:00 - [9] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: GM Unicorn wrote: The current state of the game, including starting gears and so on, it's helping us to understand what's wrong and what's good. I see the point of the OP but we cannot give to new players a simple Scrambler Pistol and say "Go, earn your stuff!". Would be boring and not helpful for testing purposes. The starting gear is defo something that will be tailor made on your feedbacks and feelings combined to ours. I'll keep the topic open and with a nice +FAV because of that ;) tl;dr MOAR OPINIONS!!111!1oneone1!1!!eleven Well, I always figured the militia vehicles were solely for testing purposes, as you just confirmed, and I think that's the way it should be. A free racial LAV seems perfectly reasonable to help a new player, and I would hope that that at least remains after launch. As far as the militia loadouts we have right now, though, I'm perfectly fine with them. They allow a brand new player to have some choices if their teams needs different weaponry on the field, and all the weapons available to them are rather UP compared to the kind of gear most of us are running around with, so what they're getting for free isn't really game-breaking or anything. I mean, my Sagaris can take 6 guys with militia swarm launchers like its nothing. i agree we should only really have LAV like old build but even then we need some sort of limit with these tanks maybe not if we get bigger maps but these r wayyyy too small for all of them the original loadouts do help if u r a new player but now they r just irritating having on my page with all that crappy gear in it lol militia gear sucks idk why OP would complain :P
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2012.07.22 15:43:00 - [10] - Quote all the current militia infantry equipment is fine. (though did the militia nanite injector and militia scrambler pistol ever get fixed? last i checked they were not BPOs) i wouldn't mind seeing more even. it's the militia vehicles i have a problem with, especially dropships. militia dropships have facilitated some of the most BS tactics we've seen all build. - the invisible tower campers endlessly firing at a panel - endless waves of disposable flying taxis swarming over your lines, making any defense other than "chase your tail from panel to panel" pointless. - people intentionally CRASHING the ship into other players... yah... they're THAT disposable. crashing has become plan A for some people...

VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 135	Posted - 2012.07.22 15:47:00 - [11] - Quote besides the dropship thing going on militia vehicles are really no threat, due to the fact that you can usually remove a militia tank with 3 guys with infantry grenades and advanced ARs. Dropships however are slightly annoying........ granted they only take a forge gun shot or two to remove i think that its fine for now, at least it gives the AV people something to do always.
Dro2072 Doomheim 35	Posted - 2012.07.22 16:05:00 - [12] - Quote i know this shouldnt go here so i apologize in advance but since we are on the topic of dropships they need to take a considerable amount of isk to be bought so they arent being used as battering rams or significant damage not to shields but health when someone rams it into an infantry/ground. when you think about it would a pilot actually do this in real life? no because he knows he would explode and die therfore losing his ship. they are ment for air support not raming. i think the militia gear should stay free as well because like others posted its crap gear compared to the better stuff and how will you know that class you start out with is the one you want? the people who arent in the beta like us wont have our knowledge on the game and will want to play around with at least the basic gear to find out how they want to play and arent stuck in one role. vehicles again as mentioned are another thing they hardley change throughout most games other then small differences like movement, weapons etc. so they dont need to be free militia or not because if you have played an fps and most who will be playing DUST 514 more than likely have and they know what the vehicles do. most of this is obvious so sorry but thats my opinion.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.07.22 18:12:00 - [13] - Quote Maybe this time CCP could make a game that isn't strictly for masochists.
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.22 18:34:00 - [14] - Quote @CCP Actually if this is for beta testing why ask us to unlock things? Give us everything you got and let us test it. Why do I have to play for several weekends to unlock a Tank when my only job is to test it; none of us is going to carry these thing in the real game so why time-limit what we can test? Unlocking things works for the flow of the real game but not for testing! IMO without SP limits testing would be far more productive and faster: in one weekend I can test everything and so have a better overview of the balance in the game but the less I have access to, the less my understanding of the game is. Also if you are not sure about the cost of each skill jut make a poll!
RolyatDerTeufel D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 1648	Posted - 2012.07.22 18:40:00 - [15] - Quote I'm okay with all militia items. as long as in full release they just are blueprints and the industry needs material to actually create that asset and then would allow for the person to call it in. Militia Gear could allow for the first tutorial, such as market > fittings > basic battle stuff in a PvE tutorial.
Eskel Bondfree 27	Posted - 2012.07.22 19:44:00 - [16] - Quote I also think that some basic free militia equipment should be available to every new player. Every unskilled player should be able to chose from the basic infantry classes that are common to other comparable FPS games like Battlefield etc. First because people will want to try out the different areas of weapons and equipment before they start to skill into them with no turning back. And second, because it could quickly get boring if you are locked into one narrow infantry class all the time in the beginning. You want to have new players take a wide look at everything that is possible right at the beginning, otherwise they might lose interest before they even get to experience the good stuff. I also think it's important that even the new and unskilled players have the option to react to different situations on the battlefield, which requires access to the already mentioned basic infantry classes, like assault rifle guy, anti tank guy, medic, mechanic, sniper (or something along those lines). Same goes for vehicles, LAVs and dropships are a must for every team due to the size of the maps. Otherwise you could end up in a match where only one side has access to fast ground or air transportation, and I really don't think this is desirable outside of corporation matches. About exploits like dropship camping and squishing: these are clearly just that, exploits, and they should be fixed by fixing the respective vehicle or game mechanic. For example, allow for larger draw distance, make dropship weapons less effective at a distance (or possibly remove them from the militia version all together), make drop ships take damage when touching the ground or force them into a temporary 'landing mode' etc.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.07.22 20:01:00 - [17] - Quote Templar Two wrote: @CCP Actually if this is for beta testing why ask us to unlock things? Give us everything you got and let us test it. Why do I have to play for several weekends to unlock a Tank when my only job is to test it; none of us is going to carry these thing in the real game so why time-limit what we can test? Unlocking things works for the flow of the real game but not for testing! IMO without SP limits testing would be far more productive and faster: in one weekend I can test everything and so have a better overview of the balance in the game but the less I have access to the less my understanding of the game is. Also if you are not sure about the cost of each skill jut make a poll! The reason you have to level up, is because if you didn't have to, everyone would be running full proto gear all the time. No one would want to test out the lower level stuff. But, the lower level stuff needs to be tested too. So right now we are leveling up at a faster rate so that we do get through all of the equipment relatively fast, but we do have to test out the lower end stuff. They want to make sure that level 1 assault suits aren't being killed by 1 shot from a proto AR. It's all about testing balance.
Antilles Maximus ZionTCD Legacy Rising 80	Posted - 2012.07.22 21:56:00 - [18] - Quote You also have to consider testing market purchases, skillbooks, gaining/losing ISK, etc... If they gave us everything, would we have noticed the Electronics Upgrade skill did not exist? They give you enough to be productive but they have to allow us to progress through the game realistically. @AntillesMaximus [email protected]
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.22 22:06:00 - [19] - Quote I actually don't mind militia presets; even vehicles. They're pretty weak and easy to take down so they don't present a balance issue, and they allow new players to test out vehicles without spending all their SP on a vehicle and realizing they hate it. I actually want militia presets and vehicles to stay in release.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.07.22 22:41:00 - [20] - Quote I don't mind militia dropsuits and guns, but vehicles are bonuses, and should ALL be bought.

Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 393	Posted - 2012.07.23 00:03:00 - [21] - Quote I would like to see all vehicles cost SP & ISK
Thor Thunder Fist Better Hide R Die 79	Posted - 2012.07.23 00:53:00 - [22] - Quote militia vehicles need to stay in to some degree so that prospective tank/dropship pilots actually know the like the thing they are skilling into,in the last build as I was skilling up to tanks and branched off to give dropships a try and hated them and wasted SP if I hate militia dropships I woulda known I didn't like them and wouldn't have skilled into them, but I would prefer like a 10k price tag(lil more for tanks) on them or so so they are not as disposable but they are cheap enough for anyone to try out. also would give tank drivers like me something to use untill we get enough SP for a real tank(same thing applies to dropship pilots)
EVICER 63	Posted - 2012.07.23 01:46:00 - [23] - Quote IMO just leave them in but give the individual player like 1 of each and thats it for a match.Once you burn those up yer done.For the vehicles.The militia dropsuits/equipment infinite.The crash in the ground/crushing tactic thing would be over fast or not happening as often.
BAD FURRY Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 247	Posted - 2012.07.23 06:25:00 - [24] - Quote GM Unicorn wrote: The current state of the game, including starting gears and so on, it's helping us to understand what's wrong and what's good. I see the point of the OP but we cannot give to new players a simple Scrambler Pistol and say "Go, earn your stuff!". Would be boring and not helpful for testing purposes. The starting gear is defo something that will be tailor made on your feedbacks and feelings combined to ours. I'll keep the topic open and with a nice +FAV because of that ;) tl;dr MOAR OPINIONS!!111!1oneone1!1!!eleven but in eve you start out with a meat suit and no pants and are tolled to earn your stuff so..why not ?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.23 06:34:00 - [25] - Quote NO free "starting" vehicles, even the terrible fits we have now. NO infinite-use Militia BPOs for vehicles. NO skill requirements for Militia vehicles. Change 2 things, keep 1. Sounds fixed to me. Militia vehicles still exist, but you also have to pay for every single one.
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.23 09:51:00 - [26] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: The reason you have to level up, is because if you didn't have to, everyone would be running full proto gear all the time. No one would want to test out the lower level stuff. But, the lower level stuff needs to be tested too. So right now we are leveling up at a faster rate so that we do get through all of the equipment relatively fast, but we do have to test out the lower end stuff. They want to make sure that level 1 assault suits aren't being killed by 1 shot from a proto AR. It's all about testing balance. Well actually a good tester would test lower levels anyway...no reason to play instead then test now! I fear many here want to play Dust 514 but not test it. Dust 514 now is too unplayable for me but it's perfectly testable.
Zeran Haggai Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 196	Posted - 2012.07.23 12:54:00 - [27] - Quote Militia Dropsuit loadouts are fine imo. The militia vehicles we have now should stay at release so that potential pilots can try them out, but in a limited capacity. Everyone who starts the game should get 5-10 of each vehicle, and once those are gone they are gone and should not be purchasable in the market. If you don't know if you want to invest the skills in a particular vehicle after trying it that many times then tough luck. I think this would allow for people to try vehicles without all the vehicle spam we have now.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.23 12:56:00 - [28] - Quote Zeran Haggai wrote: Militia Dropsuit loadouts are fine imo. The militia vehicles we have now should stay at release so that potential pilots can try them out, but in a limited capacity. Everyone who starts the game should get 5-10 of each vehicle, and once those are gone they are gone and should not be purchasable in the market. If you don't know if you want to invest the skills in a particular vehicle after trying it that many times then tough luck. I think this would allow for people to try vehicles without all the vehicle spam we have now. I like this idea.
Ryan Martel Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2012.07.23 13:25:00 - [29] - Quote What? And spoil the fun of taking potshots at the militia vehicles as a forge gunner or swarm launcher? The AVs love them because its free points and ISK Still I can understand how it can be annoying. Maybe a private quota where you can only call in a certain number of default militia vehicles per battle until you get more war points or a certain amount of time passes in the match like around five minutes? This won't apply for those with custom fits however to such a degree because they are investing ISK or AUR into a fit and putting it at risk. Would that be more agreeable?
howard sanchez Conspiratus Immortalis 448	Posted - 2012.07.23 13:31:00 - [30] - Quote GM Unicorn wrote: The current state of the game, including starting gears and so on, it's helping us to understand what's wrong and what's good. I see the point of the OP but we cannot give to new players a simple Scrambler Pistol and say "Go, earn your stuff!". Would be boring and not helpful for testing purposes. The starting gear is defo something that will be tailor made on your feedbacks and feelings combined to ours. I'll keep the topic open and with a nice +FAV because of that ;) tl;dr MOAR OPINIONS!!111!1oneone1!1!!eleven Thank you Mr. Unicorn for some clear and understandable feedback. More posts like this; short, informative and to the point; would be greatly welcomed by our small community.

KingBlade82 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2012.07.23 13:33:00 - [31] - Quote idk what ideas they should put in but alot of these ideas r stupid :P my feedback is to be very careful with how u make it on release expecially if u want new players in game
Demonic Chaos Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2012.07.23 13:37:00 - [32] - Quote I like having milita vehicles but I think they should have some prerequisites say vehicles 1 for lav 2 or 3 for hav not sure about dropships cause I'm not interested in those. Have militia mods as bpo's but for the ships say half the cost of the tier 1 version so is some skills required for use and not free so people won't use them as battering rams etc also for dropships squishing people should cause some damage to dropship. I think militia vehicles should be so people can try stuff before being fully skilled for the tier 1 vehicles and to learn to fly/drive forless but not completely free
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.07.23 14:12:00 - [33] - Quote Biggest mistake regarding militia gear ? Obviously vehicles other than the LAV. But more specifically : vehicle MODULES. Come on.... Large shield booster and damage controle unit for free ? oO #gettoutofhere Also, i'd say that equipment should require skills. Want to medic ? Skill it. Want to support with NH ? Skill it. Militia gear in the previous build was overall WAY more balanced in my opinion. Having a free but fragile LAV for everyone was nice.


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