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Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.07.20 16:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
That's a decent idea - there certainly needs to be some kind of measure to prevent your expensive ride being pinched. I was thinking along the lines of a 10-15 second delay from you getting out of the craft during which the pilot seat is locked, but an 'eject from drivers seat' button is pretty good too. After some of the matches I've had with dumb passengers/gunners recently I wouldn't mind an 'eject passenger from vehicle' button.  |
Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.07.20 16:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
I really don't get why people don't PTFO: today I landed my Dship next to an unprotected B with a gunner on-board and sat there for what felt like minutes waiting for him to get out and hack it. Nothing. Then a second 'team'-member ran towards me - straight past B! - jumped on board then sat there waiting. I actually face-palmed. In the end I jumped out and did it myself and of course the morons stole my Dship while I was yards away and proceeded to get it blown up in seconds. Unbelievable. Which is why I'd like to have shot them both out of the doors at B like a couple of walking missiles. 
Or at the very least be able to lock the driver's door while I hop out to do their damn jobs for them. |
Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.07.21 17:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems like we have parallel threads discussing the same thing now. I added a few suggestions to Darky's other thread that might be worth others looking at on the same subject:
Force switching position on vehicles
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=27681&find=unread |
Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.07.21 23:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mo Gallas Gentralde wrote:
+1 for some good ideas there, although I feel they may be a little over-powered. I don't really think you should be able to stop the vehicle remotely or blow it up, those kind of functions are probably open to too much abuse or will confuse other players. If you are simply locked out of a driver seat then at least you know what's (not) happening. Driving off with a Dship or tank that suddenly lands or stops moving for no apparent reason would be confusing and annoying in equal measure, even if it is fairer for the driver.
@ Mr Vito - +1 but as I mentioned earlier, as I see it, the problem with a skill-based lock out is you may end up with an empty vehicle that no-one can access taking up a vehicle slot that no-one on your team can use (ie. one of the limited number of vehicles available per team), which would disadvantage your team. Allowing anyone access when the driver has died or left the vehicle for a significant length of time means this isn't an issue.
There may be a way to use a skill-based denial system (which does make sense as far as it goes), but I can't see a way around the 'dead vehicle' issue, unless you start 'de-rezzing' perfectly good vehicles after a certain length of time, which makes no sense in the lore and isn't a very elegant solution either. If anyone can think of one I'd love to hear it though.
I'm intrigued to see what CCP do here. 10 to 1 they do nothing at all.  |
Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.07.22 16:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
I can see an argument that a pilot/driver should never leave their vehicle and if they do so they forfeit any rights to their expensive kit, but I don't agree with it. As the purchaser of the vehicle I think you should have some kind of control over what you purchased above and beyond the rest of the team, especially with the high costs of the equipment.
At the very least there's no way someone should be able to steal your ride when it's first delivered, which is always a risk unless you run off into the blue yonder whenever you want to order up transport.
Hold the phone. I just thought of an alternate way to manage all this:
As long as the driver/pilot is within a certain distance of the vehicle, say a 20 metres/yard radius, the driver seat is locked for team-members. If the driver dies or wanders beyond this zone then the driver seat unlocks and the vehicle can be taken.
That might be the simplest solution of all. No need to kick players, no need for extra buttons or combos, no worries about vehicle delivery and all automatic. It even lets team-mates GTA if they are watching the pilot's distance-from-vehicle. Comments/criticisms? |
Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.07.23 05:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cheers. I think it's probably the best and simplest solution, but it needs poking with a stick to see if there's any holes or other drawbacks to it. I see your point with the distance, although I think you need to stay fairly close to your vehicle if you do get out. Maybe 30M might be better. It could be tweaked up or down easily enough though. |
Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.07.23 16:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Chihiro, I MAY have found a slight flaw in your plan.
What happens when the owner WANTS to be a gunner instead of the driver?
If you automate it such that when they're in the vehicle and not in the driver's seat another player can take over, that leaves us with the same problem we have now where your teammates can hijack your vehicle and you can't do anything about it, but if you make it so they can't take over, you can't let your allies take control of your vehicle without having to actively run AWAY from it.
Giving the owning player a simple "hold triangle to swap into driver's seat" option would be less problematic, imo.
Interesting. I knew it couldn't be that easy.
First question - if you just want to be the gunner in a vehicle is it really worth your while to pay for the vehicle yourself? Especially if better and more expensive vehicles will require you to use millions of SP & ISK on piloting, vehicle skills and equipment just to be a gunner in a vehicle which (by choice) you have little control over? I suppose some people might, although when the game comes out of beta I imagine it would be more effective, cheaper and a lot less hassle to just buddy up with someone who wants to drive and needs a regular accomplice. Any vehicle owner is going to be pretty happy about someone who wants to be a dedicated gunner I would think, as long as the gunner isn't a complete tool.
Back to your point. You still need more than a 'swap into drivers seat button' because you have to be in or next to the vehicle to use that option. It doesn't prevent theft at vehicle deployment or if you step outside your transport more than a few feet. Say then that we combine the two ideas: the driver seat is locked automatically as long as the owner is driving or within short range of the vehicle, but if the owner chooses to switch to a gunner/passenger seat then the driver seat becomes unlocked for other players. If the owner then wishes to return to the driver's seat the current driver will switch places or be kicked from the vehicle (if it's full and the owner gets on-board).
It works, but it adds layers of complexity for the owner and other players (extra buttons, 'why did I just get kicked out of the vehicle?') and may not feel fair to other players (if we can kick a driver out, why not a kick all crew ability?). I'm not sure that's worth it just to allow players to gun from their own vehicles when they could do a better job gunning for someone else on their team (and for such people the option is still there as long as you run a short distance away from your ride before re-joining your new driver. Or you could have the driver seat auto-unlock permanently if the owner chooses to swap to another position, although with that you do run the risk of the owner doing so by accident and losing rights to the drivers seat).
I'm not trying to say my way is best, just trying to strike a balance between function and simplicity. I'm curious how many players would really want to buy/skill something expensive just to gun from when they could simply join someone else, let them pay the costs of the vehicle/skills and use their own skills/ISK for something more suitable for gunners. I'm also pretty curious what CCP will actually do about this issue - if they do anything at all, of course...
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Chihiro Itto
66
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Posted - 2012.07.24 14:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Good work. As a concept this is probably at the point where you put some version of it in the beta and test it out in practice. It's probably only after it's been trialed for a time that the fine tuning we've been discussing can be made final, but I think we've considered 95% of the possibilities/problems and produced a decent solution.
Nice job Dust players. Over to you CCP...  |
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