DUST Search - A Reasonable Punishment for Team Killing When CCP Turns On FF

Geirskoegul wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

HighSec - Loss of standing (as in EVE), and Concord fines paid to the player(s) killed. The value paid is the cost of gear you destroyed, modified for the victim's standing (lower standing = less fine for killing you), and the payment is forwarded on to the player(s) TKed. An Assist have no effect on your standing, but 1/4 of the teammate's replacement costs will be paid as a fine.

LowSec - No punishment for Assists, and fines reduced by an appropriate amount (approx 30 - 50%). Loss of standing will also be significantly lower than in HighSec.

NullSec - What are these "rules" you speak of?

In HighSec, known TKers will be flagged thanks to their low standing, and players will know to be cautious about incoming fire, and less cautious about outgoing fire in that player's direction. In LowSec, it will take significantly worse standing for this to happen, and in NullSec, there's no penalty. If someone is bad enough to get flagged in LowSec, they MIGHT be bad enough that in HighSec, they're marked as a Concord bounty. In this instance, a bounty marker will appear near the teammate indicator, and a reward will be paid out for killing said player instead of incurring a fine.

No fines to the player doing the shooting. Period. As in EVE, the "fine" is that you lose something, the victim doesn't receive anything except the insurance he paid for on the ship.

In a game like Dust, where concord-style response isn't viable, grief points really are the most ideal solution. Look to how planetside handled it, it's the closest relative to this game, and it really provides the best solution in terms of the gameplay-affecting penalty. I'm fine with secstatus being added as well, maybe have it result in higher warpoint costs or something in high-sec, since "police chasing you" doesn't translate to EVE. It's difficult to suggest a workable mechanic for secstatus as things are now, but it shouldn't be purely aesthetic.


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 18:26:00 - [1] - Quote I've said it before, and I'll say it again... HighSec - Loss of standing (as in EVE), and Concord fines paid to the player(s) killed. The value paid is the cost of gear you destroyed, modified for the victim's standing (lower standing = less fine for killing you), and the payment is forwarded on to the player(s) TKed. An Assist have no effect on your standing, but 1/4 of the teammate's replacement costs will be paid as a fine. LowSec - No punishment for Assists, and fines reduced by an appropriate amount (approx 30 - 50%). Loss of standing will also be significantly lower than in HighSec. NullSec - What are these "rules" you speak of? In HighSec, known TKers will be flagged thanks to their low standing, and players will know to be cautious about incoming fire, and less cautious about outgoing fire in that player's direction. In LowSec, it will take significantly worse standing for this to happen, and in NullSec, there's no penalty. If someone is bad enough to get flagged in LowSec, they MIGHT be bad enough that in HighSec, they're marked as a Concord bounty. In this instance, a bounty marker will appear near the teammate indicator, and a reward will be paid out for killing said player instead of incurring a fine.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 20:03:00 - [2] - Quote Geirskoegul wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I've said it before, and I'll say it again... HighSec - Loss of standing (as in EVE), and Concord fines paid to the player(s) killed. The value paid is the cost of gear you destroyed, modified for the victim's standing (lower standing = less fine for killing you), and the payment is forwarded on to the player(s) TKed. An Assist have no effect on your standing, but 1/4 of the teammate's replacement costs will be paid as a fine. LowSec - No punishment for Assists, and fines reduced by an appropriate amount (approx 30 - 50%). Loss of standing will also be significantly lower than in HighSec. NullSec - What are these "rules" you speak of? In HighSec, known TKers will be flagged thanks to their low standing, and players will know to be cautious about incoming fire, and less cautious about outgoing fire in that player's direction. In LowSec, it will take significantly worse standing for this to happen, and in NullSec, there's no penalty. If someone is bad enough to get flagged in LowSec, they MIGHT be bad enough that in HighSec, they're marked as a Concord bounty. In this instance, a bounty marker will appear near the teammate indicator, and a reward will be paid out for killing said player instead of incurring a fine. No fines to the player doing the shooting. Period. As in EVE, the "fine" is that you lose something, the victim doesn't receive anything except the insurance he paid for on the ship. In a game like Dust, where concord-style response isn't viable, grief points really are the most ideal solution. Look to how planetside handled it, it's the closest relative to this game, and it really provides the best solution in terms of the gameplay-affecting penalty. I'm fine with secstatus being added as well, maybe have it result in higher warpoint costs or something in high-sec, since "police chasing you" doesn't translate to EVE. It's difficult to suggest a workable mechanic for secstatus as things are now, but it shouldn't be purely aesthetic. Paying fines to the victim seemed like a good idea to me, but I can see your point. Fines aren't defined by being paid to the victim though, so I think a system involving fines is still legitimate. If you kill a teammate, Concord take ISK from you for doing so. It doesn't have to go to the player you killed. But the Planetside grief points system seems MORE inappropriate for New Eden, not less. People don't get banned from EVE for betraying their allies in a battle, and it would make NO sense to do it here. I think secstatus and having lesser penalties to your teammates when you have low standing works. Also, as I suggested, they could add bounties which can be claimed by a player's teammate when they've destroyed their reputation badly enough. If someone's been bad enough, they'll have their teammates killing them for ISK.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 22:22:00 - [3] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Backstabbing isn't actually integral. It's just you EvE guys love making a quick buck/being efficient. That's just how it is. Edit: Friendly fire IS integral I'm sorry, but this is incorrect (apart from the edit). Betrayal, and more importantly, the freedom to do so during combat, is one of the most prevalent aspects of EVE. I'm not an EVE player, but I know enough about New Eden to know that it's meant to allow for this type of behaviour. If they implement some kind of friendly-fire penalty, it makes NO sense for it to be a ban from playing, even a temporary one. Booting from a current battle? Maybe... MAYBE. Fines in proportion to the friendly fire damage you dealt? Sure. Some form of reimbursement to the victim of such an attack? I don't see why not. But more importantly, ANY penalty to the TKer needs to be scaled back as you move from HighSec to NullSec, preferably with no consequences for NullSec betrayals.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.19 09:02:00 - [4] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Arcushek Dion wrote: In null sec corps should handle friendly fire incidents. In hi/low sec they could implement some sort of standings like in eve where if you repeatedly teamkill youre security status goes down. this would give your teammates a headsup at least that you have a history of teamkilling. Also putting in a system that would allow your teammates to forgive the teamkill if it is accidental would be good. so unforgiven teamkill -> effects sec status, forgiven teamkill -> no sec status penalty. Any merc who gets to low of a sec status is no longer allowed to participate in hi sec matches at all, but can participate in lowsec I doubt CCP would put that in. They would more than likely let the high-sec "crime watch" system handle that instead of the players. In Eve Online, there are griefers who join Incursion fleets with a bunch of randoms with the intent of actually destroying their own friends because... guess what! They're Sansha's Nation sympathizers! (role-playing) What did CCP do? Nothing. You seem to be missing the point Dion was making. If a teammate kills you, normally they'll receive a penalty for it. The victim can CHOOSE to accept that the kill wasn't intended by the killer, and it will basically be like "I won't press charges" in the real world - the NPC "crime watch" will ignore that particular incident. If you don't actively TELL the game to pass on the penalty, it will be treated as a deliberate action.