DUST Search - Are breach-type weapons better?

Jack McReady wrote:

SoLJae wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Breach weapons are more accurate, so they have higher EFFECTIVE DPS at range.

Also, in CQC the regular version is technically capable of a faster kill if you can keep your aim.

The BEST assault rifle for RANGE is the DuVolle Tacical Assault Rifle---much better than the Breach varieties. You just have to learn how to pull fast, as it is a one shot/pull weapon. However, it has a much better zoom scope and does wicked damage- per- shot.

no just no.

alot still dont grasp how the weapon spread in this game works:
1. you have modifiers like standing, crouching, moving which all weapons share
2. you have an accuracy rating on the weapon which defines how much the weapon kicks when you fire it. the weapon kick takes a while to recover, this means a weapon with high ROF will stack up the weapon kick (additionally to all the other modifiers in point 1) and your weapon begins to spread in every direction. in the case of the breach AR, it has the second best accuracy rating of all AR and it has low ROF thus the weapon kick resets before the next shot is fired (imho this is a bug or overlooked because this means the weapon fires with pinpoint accuracy when you crouch and hold the trigger). if you take the tactical AR which has the lowest accuracy of all AR and start to spam the fire button to achieve max ROF then you will not hit anything with it.

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Shinigami6 Test Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2012.07.16 13:45:00 - [1] - Quote Just wanted to hear opinions on this. I calculated DPS and the regular rifles have higher dps, but for some reason, i feel like i die quicker against breach weapons. Also, more people seem to use breach weapons, both in smg and rifles. Side note, this is not an "its overpowered" thread. even if one weapon is better than the other, i feel neither is overpowered.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 13:50:00 - [2] - Quote Breach weapons are more accurate, so they have higher EFFECTIVE DPS at range. Also, in CQC the regular version is technically capable of a faster kill if you can keep your aim.
Codename BG 47 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 47	Posted - 2012.07.16 13:52:00 - [3] - Quote Breach has las recoil i think
Shinigami6 Test Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2012.07.16 13:54:00 - [4] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Breach weapons are more accurate, so they have higher EFFECTIVE DPS at range. Also, in CQC the regular version is technically capable of a faster kill if you can keep your aim. What do you mean by effective dps?
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.07.16 13:56:00 - [5] - Quote Shinigami6 Test wrote: Just wanted to hear opinions on this. I calculated DPS and the regular rifles have higher dps, but for some reason, i feel like i die quicker against breach weapons. Also, more people seem to use breach weapons, both in smg and rifles. Side not, this is not an "its overpowered" thread. even if one weapon is better than the other, i fell neither is overpowered. I love using either the GB-9 Breach Assault Rifle or the CreoDron. They are both very good weapons with tremendous offensive firepower. The Creo is more powerful, however it has high PG requirements. The GB-9 has a PG requirement of 6, which is very low. The reason why the Breach varieties are so good is the low ROF and high damage per shot characteristics that they all share. I believe they all fire at 401.1 RPM, but their damge increases per level--standard,advanced and proto.
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.07.16 14:02:00 - [6] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Breach weapons are more accurate, so they have higher EFFECTIVE DPS at range. Also, in CQC the regular version is technically capable of a faster kill if you can keep your aim. The BEST assault rifle for RANGE is the DuVolle Tacical Assault Rifle---much better than the Breach varieties. You just have to learn how to pull fast, as it is a one shot/pull weapon. However, it has a much better zoom scope and does wicked damage- per- shot.
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.07.16 14:07:00 - [7] - Quote Must give it a try as I prefer semi's. Would like to see ccp introduce a range of battle rifles make a change from AR's and SMG's
SoLJae ZionTCD Legacy Rising 351	Posted - 2012.07.16 14:15:00 - [8] - Quote fenrir storm wrote: Must give it a try as I prefer semi's. Would like to see ccp introduce a range of battle rifles make a change from AR's and SMG's Was thinking the same thing...then I remembered that we haven't seen the Laser Rifles yet. Their weapons tab is there but they aren't. They could be a perfect addition to the ARs and SMGs.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 14:26:00 - [9] - Quote Shinigami6 Test wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Breach weapons are more accurate, so they have higher EFFECTIVE DPS at range. Also, in CQC the regular version is technically capable of a faster kill if you can keep your aim. What do you mean by effective dps? I mean that the standard DPS calculations ignore the probability of a miss, which is higher at range on regular ARs than Breach variants. And as for bringing Tactical ARs up, that's a good point, I haven't used them enough to judge personally, so I was only focusing on the relationship between Breach and standard.
Jack McReady 46	Posted - 2012.07.16 14:45:00 - [10] - Quote SoLJae wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Breach weapons are more accurate, so they have higher EFFECTIVE DPS at range. Also, in CQC the regular version is technically capable of a faster kill if you can keep your aim. The BEST assault rifle for RANGE is the DuVolle Tacical Assault Rifle---much better than the Breach varieties. You just have to learn how to pull fast, as it is a one shot/pull weapon. However, it has a much better zoom scope and does wicked damage- per- shot. no just no. alot still dont grasp how the weapon spread in this game works: 1. you have modifiers like standing, crouching, moving which all weapons share 2. you have an accuracy rating on the weapon which defines how much the weapon kicks when you fire it. the weapon kick takes a while to recover, this means a weapon with high ROF will stack up the weapon kick (additionally to all the other modifiers in point 1) and your weapon begins to spread in every direction. in the case of the breach AR, it has the second best accuracy rating of all AR and it has low ROF thus the weapon kick resets before the next shot is fired (imho this is a bug or overlooked because this means the weapon fires with pinpoint accuracy when you crouch and hold the trigger). if you take the tactical AR which has the lowest accuracy of all AR and start to spam the fire button to achieve max ROF then you will not hit anything with it.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 14:52:00 - [11] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: if you take the tactical AR which has the lowest accuracy of all AR and start to spam the fire button to achieve max ROF then you will not hit anything with it. Except if you're in effective SMG range, of course. I think the advantage to the Tactical AR is that it has good single shot accuracy at range, high damage, AND the ability to get extreme RoF in CQC. EDIT: But as mentioned, I haven't used it much, because I'm not great with ARs, and have found it less friendly for my playstyle than others.
Shinigami6 Test Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2012.07.16 15:09:00 - [12] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shinigami6 Test wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Breach weapons are more accurate, so they have higher EFFECTIVE DPS at range. Also, in CQC the regular version is technically capable of a faster kill if you can keep your aim. What do you mean by effective dps? I mean that the standard DPS calculations ignore the probability of a miss, which is higher at range on regular ARs than Breach variants. And as for bringing Tactical ARs up, that's a good point, I haven't used them enough to judge personally, so I was only focusing on the relationship between Breach and standard. I think you might be on to something there. dps is based on the assumption that all bullets hit. but realistically, that is very unlikely to happen. when you go one on one, chance are itll be hit and miss. and in that scenario, it is very possible that the number of bullets hit are the same for a regular rifle and a breach rifle. and if the number of bullets landed is the same, then the breach weapon clearly comes out on top
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.07.16 15:18:00 - [13] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: SoLJae wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Breach weapons are more accurate, so they have higher EFFECTIVE DPS at range. Also, in CQC the regular version is technically capable of a faster kill if you can keep your aim. The BEST assault rifle for RANGE is the DuVolle Tacical Assault Rifle---much better than the Breach varieties. You just have to learn how to pull fast, as it is a one shot/pull weapon. However, it has a much better zoom scope and does wicked damage- per- shot. no just no. alot still dont grasp how the weapon spread in this game works: 1. you have modifiers like standing, crouching, moving which all weapons share 2. you have an accuracy rating on the weapon which defines how much the weapon kicks when you fire it. the weapon kick takes a while to recover, this means a weapon with high ROF will stack up the weapon kick (additionally to all the other modifiers in point 1) and your weapon begins to spread in every direction. in the case of the breach AR, it has the second best accuracy rating of all AR and it has low ROF thus the weapon kick resets before the next shot is fired (imho this is a bug or overlooked because this means the weapon fires with pinpoint accuracy when you crouch and hold the trigger). if you take the tactical AR which has the lowest accuracy of all AR and start to spam the fire button to achieve max ROF then you will not hit anything with it. Step 1 Aim at feet, Step 2 pull trigger for about 6-7 rounds Step 3 ??? Step 4 find the guy you been shooting at died to a head shot wound.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.16 15:34:00 - [14] - Quote I prefer the Allotek Burst. Really good at mid to long ranges but I find it lacking in CQC. The 6 round burst is devastating when you place accurate headshots. The breach weapons are really good hipfire rifles though and I switch out between the Allo and Creo often. I really want to like the Tactical rifles but I haven't found their niche yet.
Regis Mark V 249	Posted - 2012.07.16 15:51:00 - [15] - Quote Breach have less recoil good ADS accuracy. I find them to be bad at hip fire except the SMG. But the allotek Burst rifle if you have good aim you will be rewarded!
Sw3RvE 25	Posted - 2012.07.16 16:15:00 - [16] - Quote i use both the Breach and Assault Rifles. It just depends on if i want to have a slower rof or not. breach rounds do more damage per bullet but it shoots slower. so you might want to use the breach type on an open map. use the faster assault rifle in close quarters.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2012.07.16 16:45:00 - [17] - Quote the answer is: kinda the reduced recoil and slightly tightened hip spread are noteworthy, but so is the lost dps. in my experience however, it feels like the breach variants just give me a bunch of accuracy i don't need. there's a large swath of "mid-range" where i can pretty reliably body shot people even with a standard variant. then since my aim isn't good enough to reliably headshot a moving target no matter what i'm using, the breach recoil reduction is utterly wasted on me. i find myself absolutely drilling people center mass, confident no shots are missing... only to be out dps'd and killed anyway. once i acclimate a little better i may try the breach again, but for now i get respectable results out of the duvolle or the gek. for what it's worth, being so controllable makes the breach a very newbie friendly gun. if you ever played MW:2... think ACR. it actually had terrible DPS but ANYBODY could use it. that could feed into the ambiguity of the breach ARs right now. it doesn't have to be better, it just has to be easier, you know?
JoshuaEvil666 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 33	Posted - 2012.07.16 16:57:00 - [18] - Quote the bursts are good for lower SP and lower Skilled players i can take out 3 or 4 people solo before i have to reload my militia assault rifile also i have a pretty good range and can insta pop snipers from pretty far with sharpshooter and proff level 5
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:12:00 - [19] - Quote its personal preferance. the general rule of thumb for this is the more accurate you are the more powerful ammuntion you should use, as the more powerful ammunition usually requires a slower rate of fire. or in other words the more bullets you pump out yes if every one hits is techinically more dps. however you will have a much lower hit rate. (hence why its called spray and pray). how ever the single shot AR, each bullet does more damage but its only as fast as you can pull the trigger, and hit to boot. if you are a keen shot, this will do the most damage. but its not easy.
4447 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 649	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:18:00 - [20] - Quote I THINK YOU GET LESS BULLETs WITH A BREACH? thats why i changed to a normal AR with 60 rounds.

JoshuaEvil666 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 33	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:19:00 - [21] - Quote i also seem to die istantly to random militia assaults like they have a lucky bullet or something lol
Pezz IsDank Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 171	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:36:00 - [22] - Quote Well I've been playing with breach almost ever since I could and I think they're better. My main weapon is the AR and I've used the Creodon a lot and bought some Duvolle's and use them out of curiosity. Here's what I noticed: Duvolle: - Great rate of fire, almost feels like a perfect mix of a SMG/AR. - Bad at range, still capable of killing but not as good at killing from a range as creodon which is important for me. - I was running out of ammo far too often, having to drop nanohives more often and resupply more often. Got sick of it. - Great at close quarter fights, easily better than creodon in close combat. - Had to reload more often, while it has 60 compared to 42 bullets the high ROF makes you have to reload or swap weapons sooner. - Not as good at hip firing as the creodon. Conclusion: The duvolle is a great weapon and is superior to the creodon in a few ways but I feel the creodon (breach) AR is a better all-around weapon. The two things I like best about it, it's excellent hip fire accuracy and it's ability to take out targets at a range.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:42:00 - [23] - Quote 4447 wrote: I THINK YOU GET LESS BULLETs WITH A BREACH? thats why i changed to a normal AR with 60 rounds. The creo is better for ammo management thanks to the slower rate of fire and higher damage shots. The Allo eats ammo faster than a fat kid at a buffet.


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