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[Request] To CCP: How to make the game accessible (Item restrictions)

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.13 08:23:00 - [1] - Quote EDIT - Guessing no one read this. TL;DR version: There should equipment restrictions based on security level, this will make the game tolerable for newbs as well as people without that much time on their hands to play; this would help them play the game without being constantantly massacred by those with superior weapons and equipment. Highsec should restrict advanced and prototype gear, lowsec show only restrict prototype gear, and nullsec should only restrict nothing. Dust 514 and EVE Online are already built around the idea of different areas of space have different security levels which affect what you can do there. Many people feel that new players don't really have a chance against veteran players who have superior weapons, dropsuits, and other equipment. This is a major barrier to enjoyment for new players, and can really impede the growth of the game's playerbase; joining a battle with basic gear, and being steamrolled by experienced players with the added advantage of superior equipment can really turn someone away from a game. Players that don't have much time to play will also feel punished since they make enough skill points to be able to use the mre powerful equipment, and thus be at a severe disadvantage. Some would say that it is skill, and not expensive equipment that wins battles, but consider these scenarios: Two teams are overall equal in skill, and tactics, but one team has prototype gear while the other uses militia. Which team do you think will win? Obviously the one with the prototype gear. The same two teams again, but the team using militia equipment is slightly more skilled than the ones using prototype gear. Who do you think will win? It is more than conceivable that the team with prototype gear could still win despite being slightly less skilled than their militia-equipped counterparts; this is because the difference in skill might be less than the difference in quality of equipment. This game however is an MMO, so it does make sense that you would get greatly superior equipment as they progress, that is how MMO's work generally. The answer to the problem of equipment disparity is NOT to nerf the higher grade equipment since nerfing would make leveling up skills and spending extra money no longer worth it, and equipment does need to get better as you progress because of the MMO nature of the game. So what is the solution? Equipment restrictions based on security level. As many of you may know, EVE Online and Dust 514 are built to have different security levels reflecting how hardcore and risky certain areas of space are. The way security levels work can be altered a bit to limit what kind grades of dropsuits, guns, and other equiment can be used in each security level such that the lower levels become more friendly to newbs, and also to those who don't have much time to play. Example: High security battles should only allow militia and standard equipment. Low security battles should allow up to advanced equipment. Null security battles should have NO restrictions on what kind of gear you're allowed to use. This would make the game actually enjoyable for those who are just starting, or don't have much time to play by allowing them to play in more regulated battle environments in which they aren't going against players with massive equipment advantages. Players who want to use advanced and prototype gear can go fight in lower security levels with other hardcore pros like themselves. CCP has made it know through countless interviews that they want this game to be accessible. They want this game to be something you can jump in and play for a quick battle without having to get deep into its MMO element. Nothing is accessible about joining a game with only militia items, and fighting a team with half their mercs using CreoDron Breach assault rifles, no one will want to just jump in and play. The more people this game manages to retain, then the more people will buy AUR to support CCP. You may not want your gear restricted, but you can always just go to nullsec and conquer planets and take contracts from EVE players without any gear restrictions, or you could go to lowsec with minimal restrictions. This thread is a response to two threads I saw that raised the valid issues brought by equipment difference. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26486&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26548&find=unread
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.13 16:13:00 - [2] - Quote added a TL;DR version for lazy people.
RolyatDerTeufel D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 1648	Posted - 2012.07.13 16:18:00 - [3] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: added a TL;DR version for lazy people. thanks. but I agree, Concord should have some kind of "rules of engagement" in highsec
Azura dark 31	Posted - 2012.07.13 16:25:00 - [4] - Quote i do think dust should be a sandbox game. but, i also agree having prototype and advanced gear in highsec is not gonna be good for the games future. i dont play eve but wouldnt that be like new players in eve trying to fight a titan in highsec.
Bresker Veyne Algintal Core Gallente Federation 152	Posted - 2012.07.13 17:12:00 - [5] - Quote This is the kind of post I wish I would see more in these forums. Don't worry about TL:DR, it's informative and constructive. I hope they will filter out these posts compared to the majority of brainless crap that is out there.
Dan Centauri Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.07.13 17:45:00 - [6] - Quote Not 100% sure if this is the right way to go, I heard something like only HS systems would be available on release. But I agree if all space is open then its a good idea.
Zarkn Frood Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.07.13 18:08:00 - [7] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EDIT - Guessing no one read this. TL;DR version: [b] This is a major barrier to enjoyment for new players, and can really impede the growth of the game's playerbase; joining a battle with basic gear, and being steamrolled by experienced players with the added advantage of superior equipment can really turn someone away from a game. I completely agree, and if this wasn't a BETA - I would've recognized that mechanic early on and left already. However, when I started there was enough new people coming in that I was able to ride the curve. Wednesday when servers opened up for the IGN preview I got so much SP off the new guys it was sad. I hope they had a good time, lol.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.07.13 19:55:00 - [8] - Quote This should also apply to vehicles
Velvet Overkill 104	Posted - 2012.07.13 20:27:00 - [9] - Quote This will significantly reduce the number of people rage quiting this game instead of batles by atleast 40% and greatly improve the likely-hood of people getting addicted to this game and buying AUR to fuel their CCP addiction.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.07.13 23:30:00 - [10] - Quote Velvet Overkill wrote: This will significantly reduce the number of people rage quiting this game instead of batles by atleast 40% and greatly improve the likely-hood of people getting addicted to this game and buying AUR to fuel their CCP addiction. agree

Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.07.14 00:23:00 - [11] - Quote altho i think the games cost will prove to be a good enough deterent for ppl wanting to run full proto gear also gotta keep in mind when the markets are linked and EVE corps/alliances can transfer ISK to their dust mercs they can fund themselves proto gear all day so yea i agree militia and standard in hisec not sure on FW being limited to advanced only tho, dunno doesnt bother me either way im always up for gudfites
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.14 02:35:00 - [12] - Quote i disagree, the isk reward for fighting in high sec should be lower so that if anyone uses prototype gear it is unprofitable, dont limit the use of gear if some one is willing or thinks they need prototype in highsec let them, just dont let them get their moneys worth. besides once the player ran economy gets started having proto in anything but dire circumstance wont be possable simple because of the cost, once high, low and null + player ran econ. get going the imbalance between newb and vet. will go away.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.14 02:49:00 - [13] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: i disagree, the isk reward for fighting in high sec should be lower so that if anyone uses prototype gear it is unprofitable, dont limit the use of gear if some one is willing or thinks they need prototype in highsec let them, just dont let them get their moneys worth. besides once the player ran economy gets started having proto in anything but dire circumstance wont be possable simple because of the cost, once high, low and null + player ran econ. get going the imbalance between newb and vet. will go away. Cost can never be an adequate balancing factor. Super Carriers go for about 20 bil and Titans are around 100bil. That doesn't stop bored/bad alliances from hotdropping a dozen of them on a solo drake just for the lulz.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.14 02:53:00 - [14] - Quote no but they would go broke pretty soon, if those titan were in real danager they wouldnt bring em out. proto is tough but focused fire will kill them.
Abron Garr Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 256	Posted - 2012.07.14 03:16:00 - [15] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: no but they would go broke pretty soon, if those titan were in real danager they wouldnt bring em out. proto is tough but focused fire will kill them. Once you reach a certain threshold, isk starts raining down in stupid amounts depending on how much you like to carebear in your free time. This isn't even taking into account corps and alliances who have more isk than good sense. I honestly don't know how you prevent proto-fit Dust players from farming newbies in hisec, or if you'd even want to since that sort of defeats the purpose of a sandbox. One thing I imagine might alleviate some of the sting of being a new player is the proposed PvE aspects of Dust. If you get SP and isk from doing Rogue-drone mode then I imagine you'll see most of your noobies farming those until they are at least able to fit Advanced gear. Or they can suck it up and take it in the butt until they're able to fit proto gear themselves. IMO, personal KDR won't be nearly as important as corp KDR. All you'd really need to do is form a noob corp with your friends and grind (or get ground) until you're able to fit proto gear, then disband your noob corp and form your "real" corp with a fresh KDR stat. I bet there will be a Dust equivalent of Eve Uni shortly after launch. It'll probably have some RPish name like Dust Boot Camp or something. I'm sure we'll figure out a way to game the system sooner or later. That's what we do in Eve.
Darkz azurr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2012.07.14 03:19:00 - [16] - Quote as the guy said , eve players can fund dust mercs and currently most people are running around in proto gear now and still making a profit. Cost can never be an adequate balancing factor - i agree i would have no problem playing in highsec 2 years from now in militia or standard gear just for fun. and if im in low/null sec , im rockin advanced and proto gear only.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.07.14 03:35:00 - [17] - Quote we running at 4x sp and isk right now of course people of protogear all over the place, however i think maybe a 1.0 space should be reserved for newbies were only basic and milita gear are allowed, let the rest of space be open game sandbox
King Snuggler Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2012.07.14 05:40:00 - [18] - Quote Zarkn Frood wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: EDIT - Guessing no one read this. TL;DR version: [b] This is a major barrier to enjoyment for new players, and can really impede the growth of the game's playerbase; joining a battle with basic gear, and being steamrolled by experienced players with the added advantage of superior equipment can really turn someone away from a game. I completely agree, and if this wasn't a BETA - I would've recognized that mechanic early on and left already. However, when I started there was enough new people coming in that I was able to ride the curve. Wednesday when servers opened up for the IGN preview I got so much SP off the new guys it was sad. I hope they had a good time, lol. They got touched in all the wrong places...
Mako LandSharkX Goggles Inc. 48	Posted - 2012.07.14 08:07:00 - [19] - Quote This idea is probably the best thing I've heard/read for improving accessibility. I'd only considered PvE/ai bot missions down the road being able to satisfy and cater to newbies tryin to train up and get into the game...until I read this post. This would also add a bit more incentive for vets to push into low/null instead of just farming hisec in order to make use of their superior funds/training. Though having said that-it seems it'd cut out a large amount of market items at release until low/null gets added in. Those market items being a big AUR draw for supporting the game seems kinda crucial even at release. If I'm mistaken in believing the game will release with only hisec planets then I don't really see much downside in this. Sure it kind of goes against the spirit of EVE, but this makes sense for DUST. I think this change would help a lot more then it would hurt.


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