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Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.18 14:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Matchmaking in a FPS MMO is bad, really bad! It's the negation of sandbox elements altogether |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.19 06:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
So newcomers that come in looking for a MMO will have to play in a Matchmaking FPS (High-sec); do you really think this is fine? This idea that the game has to babysit players into the action is so RPG and so anti FPS. Holding players' hand in FPS is a mistake...a big one. Separating players based on their SP is also bad in a FPS MMO; Why would anyone play a FPS MMO just to be stuck with a ranked FPS?
Needing in-game skills & unlocks to compete appropriately is something that won't be appealing to someone that has played FPS for decades. Would you ask a Tekken veteran to unlock moves for his favourite character or he can't compete appropriately?
Some games like FPS & Fighting Games are based on player's skills and if you "limit" what a skilled player can do you inevitably negate their true essence. What works for RPG doesn't work for FPS! What works for EVE doesn't work for Dust 514.
Also are maps in Low/Null-sec perpetual battlefields? |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.21 07:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Nobody said a new player HAS to fight in HighSec. You can go out into the less-regulated areas if you WANT to die horribly against over-geared enemies, if you really want to.
So you can play in low/null-sec but then you are naturally disadvantaged: worst gear, not enough SP, nobody wants you because you don't have a stat next to you name, etc... This is just like in RPG where player at lvl 3 character can't compete with players at level 30. In FPS if you get you ass kicked is because you are not good enough but not because the structure of the game says so: I can jump in BF 3 hardcore mode, or Arma, an do well with the basic SR/AR/SMG because I have the right skills not because I have the right SP. RPG freedom is not FPS freedom!
Plus CCP has devised a PVE system exactly because it doesn't expect you to jump in null-sec immediately: they want us to first PVE then to PVP just like RPG. They built the game on the idea that there must be ranks in Dust and danger zones like RPG.
And the game's not trying to be a typical FPS. Is it first-person? Yes. Do you shoot people? Yes. Does that mean it's impossible, by definition, for it to NOT be FPS? Yes. Stop saying it's anti-FPS when it's only anti-convention. And welcome to New Eden.
First the important thing is how you shoot people. Second: FPS is a genre built with certain characteristic so you can't alter them too much and expect to work.
Although, in spite of what I just said, I think they need to scale back the level of "upgrade-ness" from one suit to the next. Instead of having a sequential system where every suit has a different price and is a direct upgrade from the previous, they need to add "side-grades" where one suit has a larger weapon slot, and another has more armour, and a third suit could have an extra module slot.
Militia suits in each class could have baseline stats for everything, then there could be 3 - 5 versions of the standard suit, one of which is an "all-rounder" with small upgrades to several aspects. The others would be more specialised to fine-tune them for a specific playstyle. This all-rounder suit could then be used as the baseline for an equivalent upgrade going to Advanced, then the same pattern will follow for Prototype suits. You still get a wide variety of different gear to save up and buy, but you'll be using it VERY differently.
This happens is because Dust 514 uses another RPG element: rarity. Militia = CommonAdvanced = Rare. Prototype = Ultra Rare.
6thAD Lord Kermit wrote: This "instant gratification" you speak of is the bane of every society. Teaching our children patience and working toward a long term goal can help alleviate this undesirable behaviour. There might be quite a few EVE players that don't want this game. There are also quite a few who do. Regardless, I doubt CCP is going to scrap the game. So you might as well accept reality and live with it.
You mistake instant gratification with learning curve: Instant gratification is you having fun without having to learn much. All games have learning curve but undeniably FPS are very immediate: pick, point, shoot. it takes time to be good in every VG but here nobody nobody spoke about getting good!
I disagree totally with people saying this is not a console game. The writing is NOT "on the wall"! The game hasn't even gone live yet. SERIOUSLY?!? While I agree that the game could benifit from the added functionality that a true computer brings to the table, the PS3 is quite capable of handling what this game requires. Yes there have been thousands of keys handed out. And if you truly think about timezones and daily allowable play time in peoples schedules you would see that actually the total number of players has skyrocketed in the last 2 months (give or take). When I started beta you were lucky to see 100 people on any given server at any given time of day... Now you can regularly find 300-500 on some servers at any given time of the day.
I agree but the more I see Dut 514 the more I see a PC mentality driving this project. The fact that CCP introduced MKB is a undeniable proof that they want to cater to PC players.
It is true that there will be a certiain amount of "player" attrition that this game will go through. Every game does. And quite frankly (no offense to them) those people who drop out for one reason or another; all the more power to them. Those that stay will find themselves a part of the first game of its genre and one that every game developer will be trying to copy. (Look up other upcoming games and see how many are copying CCP's ideas on MMOFPS or cross-game/platrform interlinks. World of Tanks/Planes and Battleships anyone?) Good ol fashioned FPS are cool and all, but they grow stale quickly with the same gameplay over and over. And they are a dime a dozen... How many CoD's are there now? How many Medal of Honor's? Personally I'm willing to give CCP the benifit of the doubt and see where this game is going before I condemn it.
No CCP din't come out with anything new: EVE integration is unique but the rests (gameplay, RPG elements, the MMO side) is not new. Also it doesn't matter if Dust 514 it's the first of its kind: that won't matter if it's not good enough. Bungie is making a FPS MMO and they want it to be WoW in space: if they do better why should I stick with Dust 514? For the integration with EVE? For a inferior FPS experience?
Those of you who really think this game is going nowhere, I wish you luck in your search for a better game. P.S. No I'm not a "fanboy"... I'm just far less pessimistic than the rest of you.
As I said Bungie is making a FPS MMO and Sony now owes Gaikai so PlanetSide 2 can arrive on PS4 thanks to cloud gaming. The search for better games will end soon.
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Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.22 14:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Yes. This is a game with RPG and FPS elements. That's the POINT. And yes, you CAN just jump in and play in battles that are, to some degree "fair" on you - in HighSec. If you're willing to take up the challenge of fighting high-tier opponents, you can go to LowSec or NullSec for that, but if you're under-geared, there's a disadvantage involved in doing so.
PlanetSide 2 has also RPG element and, hey, NO MATCHMAKING: you jump in and have 3 continents (64km wide each) and can have fun 24/7 with any kind of player.
FPS literally means First-Person Shooter. This game has shooting, and is first person. Anything beyond that is PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Deus Ex didn't fit the usual mold, and was AMAZING. Human Revolution tried too hard to be a modern FPS and not hard enough to be a Deus Ex game, and was only decent. Plenty of other games have done things that are outside of the normal rules that their genre follows (including FPS games), and succeeded.
When I said "how you shoot people" I was talking about performance & video quality in FPS.
I will be more precise next time. Also I KNOW what FPS means but if you have a tag slapped next to you name it doesn't mean you are worthy of it!
I also don't see the relevance. DUST's gear SHOULD be less tiered than it is, BUT IT SHOULD STILL BE TIERED. Expensive gear = advantage. But the advantage, at the moment, is often larger than it should be.
First this "expensive grear = advantage" is a CCP mentality...a RPG mentality.
In many FPS you unlock more gear but not necessarily that gear gives you an advantage. I can unlock a SMG with higher fire rate but that has less damage: no advantage just balance! When you loose something to get something there can't be an advantage: tradeoff are the way to go in FPS not scaling gear as in RPG! Really giving advantages from gear is wrong in FPS: this is how overpowered weapons come to life and this is how you unbalance/break a FPS!
But even while saying that (again), there's another point I should make. If you SPECIALISE in a certain aspect early on, you can build up a reasonable amount of skills and buy some decent gear for a particular role VERY EARLY ON. It's only when you're moving into being good at a little of everything that it becomes more difficult
You cant make "difficult" for the player to achieve variety in a FPS: it should take more time to unlock everything (this happens already in a every FPS) but it should not be "difficult".
CCP said specialization is the key of Dust 514; they said it clearly many times that they expect you to specialize "like in real life"...but this isn't real life this is a VIDEO GAME and NOBODY plays VG to have the limitations of real life. Really CCP want us to do/be 1-2 thing only: to choose a role and stick to it (They don't even give you all options at day one). People get bored by repetition in FPS when they can be many classes and have hundreds of different weapons and in Dust we are supposed to be 1 class or have stick around 7 YEARS to be able to have total variety! Why do you think people want new things from FPS: because variety is far more appealing! In FPS forcing players to play as 1 thing and one thing only for many years = stagnation. Hell in VG doing/being only 1 thing is stagnation!
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Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.22 17:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Clearly I miss-expressed myself: now it' much more clear. Plus this:
SOE says that it will take 3 years of dedication to unlock everything in PS 2. Asking 3 years of dedication to unlock everything is above the standard of FPS but is a pretty reasonable since the lifetime of a FPS nowadays is 2-3 years...nothing that a normal FPS player isn't willing to do. This means that in PS 2 in 18 months you have maxed half of the 6 classes available; FPS have 4 classes nowadays so it's not out of proportion to ask 18 months for 3 classes. BF 3 with DLC is giving people things to unlock for over a period of 18 months: 18 moths to unlock everything for 4 classes. Also in PS 2 you can perfectly be a jack of all trades if you want, it won't be "difficult" to be good in many things because, when maxed out, the difference between a specialized player and a not specialized one is just 15-20% and there are tradeoffs for everything...now in Dust if I am specialized I can get 25% more DMG/HP for free + another 25-30% from gear. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.23 16:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
So discriminating players because they don't have the right SP & gear is fine in FPS! If a player thinks that in FPS he can be good "armed" only with his thumbs and reflexes and that he doesn't need SP or better gear then he is wrong? |
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