DUST Search - The Down Fall of Dust 514

JONLUK167 wrote:

I must first apologize to those of you who thought I was yelling. I do have a bad habit of leaving the caps on. At times it is just because I am trying to make a quick comment/point.
I am also aware of my grammar error. I just didn't realize that someone with such "maturity" and educational standards would have the time to sit around and read/respond to these message boards. I will be sure to reread my posts and not be so quick to post my comments in the future.
I am patient. I have been very patient. My "rational argument" is actually for those people who haven't been on Eve for years. I have spoken to several other gamers, trying to convince them to come try Dust. Their complaints are all the same. The time they have to invest is not something they are looking to do. The ignorant comments from the PC players about the console players are ridiculous. For a game to truly be as big as they want it to be, they must be able to target many people. I play both PC and console games. I enjoy both. I also enjoy strategy games. Yes, games that require thought. I have been on Eve for over six years. Yes, it's true, my reading comprehension has allowed me to play with the intellectuals for that long.
I surely hope you are not a representative of CCP, because with the disrespectual way you talk to veteran Eve players, you may just cost them a few accounts.
To insult the console players is not the way to bring them in to play the game. Obviously you feel that your intellect is far above the rest, I hope you are able to understand my English this time around. I will continue to work on my poetry but in the meantime, please feel free to spell/grammar check me.


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Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:21:00 - [1] - Quote We're at 4x SP gain and you're ignoring the passive SP we get just for our character EXISTING on the game server. You'll be able to go in, create a character, and get sick of the game. Come back 2 - 3 months later and you'll be able to instantly buff a whole range of abilities and be picking up from a much less vulnerable position. In addition to this, we don't know how the New Eden HighSec/LowSec/NullSec aspects will be implemented into DUST, and for EVE, those are a core balancing tool. In HighSec, you're not immune to being attacked by powerful opponents, but it's MUCH less likely than in the lower security ratings, so you'll be more likely to have "fair" fights against other relatively new players when you're first getting into the game. And there will be PvE gameplay which allows complete novices to not have to compete against other players who are trying to kill them.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.19 02:59:00 - [2] - Quote JONLUK167 wrote: Yeah bud i do remember it took me years to get in to different types of ships but I stuck around, The difference is that not all will wait, I tried to get my friends to join me in EVE but when they saw how long it takes to get into those ships none stayed! MY son lasted one year and said im done hes on xbox at least 5 to 7 hours a day with his friends and they wont put up with waiting to fit into anything thats the problem CCP is going to run into with DUST these console guys want it NOW not years from NOW. Most of the responses that are in the forums now are from eve players, im waiting to here just from console players that have not played one day or even herd of eve to get there take, CCP maid this game to get them not us from EVE and by the way you should take a pole and see how many EVE players dont want this game to make it you may be shocked! DUST won't have that bad a problem though. MOST of the basic gear has a Militia version you'll be able to use immediately. You don't need to train into SMGs before the game lets you upgrade from the Pistol in the default loadouts. Assuming you don't pour SP into things immediately, you can start out by finding yourself a niche - find something that, while your baseline stats might prevent you from being GOOD, you're doing slightly better in. Or at least something you ENJOY doing more than the other roles. By the time you've identified your best/most fun role, you SHOULD already have a few SPs to pile onto the relevant skills - and a small stockpile of ISK to pour into the next tier of gear. If you're not careful, you'll run through that new and pretty gear too fast, and have to save up for more - but that's one of the lessons of New Eden: Don't bring it if you can't afford to lose it. If this (relative) noob has read up on New Eden, or got good advice from a friend, they'll only bring their shiny new suits out to play when it's important - or at least profitable, and will stick to the Militia gear for the majority of most battles. By the time you can build up the necessary SP for the next tier of gear in your chosen profession, you'll probably also have saved up the ISK to buy it - exactly as it should be. In the early stages of the game, upgrades will come to you quickly. It's only as you build up in a particular specialty that it becomes time-consuming. And that's how it SHOULD be, and what most shooters LACK. It's the reason most shooters only hold their fanbase for a year (if that) before everyone move on to the next big thing. EDIT: I should also mention - console gamer for YEARS now, never played EVE, but I know a little about it.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.19 18:02:00 - [3] - Quote Templar Two wrote: So newcomers that come in looking for a MMO will have to play in a Matchmaking FPS (High-sec); do you really think this is fine? This idea that the game has to babysit players into the action is so RPG and so anti FPS. Holding players' hand in FPS is a mistake...a big one. Separating players based on their SP is also bad in a FPS MMO; Why would anyone play a FPS MMO just to be stuck with a ranked FPS? Needing in-game skills & unlocks to compete appropriately is something that won't be appealing to someone that has played FPS for decades. Would you ask a Tekken veteran to unlock moves for his favourite character or he can't compete appropriately? Some games like FPS & Fighting Games are based on player's skills and if you "limit" what a skilled player can do you inevitably negate their true essence. What works for RPG doesn't work for FPS! What works for EVE doesn't work for Dust 514. Also are maps in Low/Null-sec perpetual battlefields? Nobody said a new player HAS to fight in HighSec. You can go out into the less-regulated areas if you WANT to die horribly against over-geared enemies, if you really want to. And the game's not trying to be a typical FPS. Is it first-person? Yes. Do you shoot people? Yes. Does that mean it's impossible, by definition, for it to NOT be FPS? Yes. Stop saying it's anti-FPS when it's only anti-convention. And welcome to New Eden. Although, in spite of what I just said, I think they need to scale back the level of "upgrade-ness" from one suit to the next. Instead of having a sequential system where every suit has a different price and is a direct upgrade from the previous, they need to add "side-grades" where one suit has a larger weapon slot, and another has more armour, and a third suit could have an extra module slot. Militia suits in each class could have baseline stats for everything, then there could be 3 - 5 versions of the standard suit, one of which is an "all-rounder" with small upgrades to several aspects. The others would be more specialised to fine-tune them for a specific playstyle. This all-rounder suit could then be used as the baseline for an equivalent upgrade going to Advanced, then the same pattern will follow for Prototype suits. You still get a wide variety of different gear to save up and buy, but you'll be using it VERY differently.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.20 13:21:00 - [4] - Quote jus nukem wrote: the typical console fps player, (which is the target audience of course) I'm pretty sure it's NOT, actually. They're after the people who AREN'T sitting there waiting to pour everything into the next CoD or BF game, and instead want something NEW and DIFFERENT, but who play those games as placeholders while hoping for a change.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.20 19:38:00 - [5] - Quote jus nukem wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: jus nukem wrote: the typical console fps player, (which is the target audience of course) I'm pretty sure it's NOT, actually. They're after the people who AREN'T sitting there waiting to pour everything into the next CoD or BF game, and instead want something NEW and DIFFERENT, but who play those games as placeholders while hoping for a change. While something "NEW" and "DIFFERENT" is always a good thing, the typical console player won't embrace the complexities that DUST 514 brings to the table. A large pool of console players who play shooters are strictly about k/d ratio n that is it. A large pool of console players won't be interested. Another, equally large pool of console players ARE interested. And we're also drawing a portion of the EVE crowd in from PC, along with a few of their friends who wouldn't NORMALLY be interested, but are willing to give it a look and help out their spacer friends from ground level. Having friends in a tie-in game like EVE is for DUST can be enough incentive for some people to stick with something that's a little off their usual preference. One of my best friends can happily play a game with instant gratification for HOURS on end, but has no patience for games with long-running skill trees and things. I'm planning to suggest that he downloads the game and sets up several characters, then leaves it alone until he's built up a decent collection of SP from the passive gains so he can start off with a bit of an edge over other noobs. I suspect that if he gets to see immediate returns like he will with that SP headstart, he'll probably be able to get into the game easier than he would picking it up day one.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.21 03:53:00 - [6] - Quote JONLUK167 wrote: WOW dowload the game wait for a year to build up SP then come and play with me thats what your going with! GET RID OF SP NOW BEFORE ITS TO LATE!! YOU MADE ARE CASE THANKS I'm saying it's AN option, not the ONLY option. You could also try to learn about something called "patience" - and a little bit of something else called "maturity" might help in New Eden as well (although rumours claim Goonswarm will value you more without that second part). If you're unsure what those things are (they're difficult concepts for many of my fellow console gamers), feel free to track down an interesting device known as a "dictionary" - and I hope your reading comprehension is at a decent level, because if not, DUST probably isn't for you anyway. Calm down, learn English a little better ("you made are case" ... REALLY?), and try again when you can coherently present a rational argument, instead of babbling incoherent stream of consciousness poetry at people who are trying to have a conversation. Thanks.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.21 23:01:00 - [7] - Quote Templar Two wrote: So you can play in low/null-sec but then you are naturally disadvantaged: worst gear, not enough SP, nobody wants you because you don't have a stat next to you name, etc... This is just like in RPG where player at lvl 3 character can't compete with players at level 30. In FPS if you get you ass kicked is because you are not good enough but not because the structure of the game says so: I can jump in BF 3 hardcore mode, or Arma, an do well with the basic SR/AR/SMG because I have the right skills not because I have the right SP. RPG freedom is not FPS freedom! Plus CCP has devised a PVE system exactly because it doesn't expect you to jump in null-sec immediately: they want us to first PVE then to PVP just like RPG. They built the game on the idea that there must be ranks in Dust and danger zones like RPG. Yes. This is a game with RPG and FPS elements. That's the POINT. And yes, you CAN just jump in and play in battles that are, to some degree "fair" on you - in HighSec. If you're willing to take up the challenge of fighting high-tier opponents, you can go to LowSec or NullSec for that, but if you're under-geared, there's a disadvantage involved in doing so. Quote: First the important thing is how you shoot people. Second: FPS is a genre built with certain characteristic so you can't alter them too much and expect to work. FPS literally means First-Person Shooter. This game has shooting, and is first person. Anything beyond that is PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Deus Ex didn't fit the usual mold, and was AMAZING. Human Revolution tried too hard to be a modern FPS and not hard enough to be a Deus Ex game, and was only decent. Plenty of other games have done things that are outside of the normal rules that their genre follows (including FPS games), and succeeded. Quote: This happens is because Dust 514 uses another RPG element: rarity. Militia = CommonAdvanced = Rare. Prototype = Ultra Rare. That should be common, UNCOMMON, and rare, but I see your point. I also don't see the relevance. DUST's gear SHOULD be less tiered than it is, BUT IT SHOULD STILL BE TIERED. Expensive gear = advantage. But the advantage, at the moment, is often larger than it should be. But even while saying that (again), there's another point I should make. If you SPECIALISE in a certain aspect early on, you can build up a reasonable amount of skills and buy some decent gear for a particular role VERY EARLY ON. It's only when you're moving into being good at a little of everything that it becomes more difficult.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.21 23:09:00 - [8] - Quote JONLUK167 wrote: I must first apologize to those of you who thought I was yelling. I do have a bad habit of leaving the caps on. At times it is just because I am trying to make a quick comment/point. I am also aware of my grammar error. I just didn't realize that someone with such "maturity" and educational standards would have the time to sit around and read/respond to these message boards. I will be sure to reread my posts and not be so quick to post my comments in the future. I am patient. I have been very patient. My "rational argument" is actually for those people who haven't been on Eve for years. I have spoken to several other gamers, trying to convince them to come try Dust. Their complaints are all the same. The time they have to invest is not something they are looking to do. The ignorant comments from the PC players about the console players are ridiculous. For a game to truly be as big as they want it to be, they must be able to target many people. I play both PC and console games. I enjoy both. I also enjoy strategy games. Yes, games that require thought. I have been on Eve for over six years. Yes, it's true, my reading comprehension has allowed me to play with the intellectuals for that long. I surely hope you are not a representative of CCP, because with the disrespectual way you talk to veteran Eve players, you may just cost them a few accounts. To insult the console players is not the way to bring them in to play the game. Obviously you feel that your intellect is far above the rest, I hope you are able to understand my English this time around. I will continue to work on my poetry but in the meantime, please feel free to spell/grammar check me. I'm not a CCP employee. I've never said anything to suggest I am. I've said in multiple threads on this forum that I don't even PLAY EVE. I play PC and console games, but I don't have an up-to-date PC, so I don't play modern PC games except when visiting friends. I've owned a PS3 since they were first released. I'm sorry for having a job where I can work from home, so I have more free time to post on forums and enjoy myself. I'll try hard to be a "normal" intelligent person next time. (don't worry, I won't really) And I have plenty of friends who are console gamers too, and many of them are, like I am, EXCITED about a game which encourages a real investment in your character. I'm not arguing that the balance between high-tier gear and cheap junk is correct. It's a little too extreme for a console game. I'm not arguing that we should expect every new player to show up and just deal with being slaughtered with minimal returns for ages. But as people have mentioned in the past, there WILL be places where low-tier players will be relatively (but not entirely) safe from predation by the high-tier players with expensive kit. There will be ways that those new people will be able to avoid getting stomped in unfair fights while they get a few skills built up. And more importantly, getting to a DECENT level (not top-tier) takes VERY LITTLE TIME. Getting the high-tier equipment is a HUGE deal. Getting mid-tier equipment is only a minor consideration, as long as you're willing to SPECIALISE in a particular playstyle.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.22 05:14:00 - [9] - Quote Silax Minour wrote: And, I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that all the Beta Characters are going to be wiped when the gold version releases, i.e. we will ALL be back to sqaure one with our characters. IF that is the case, I do hope that CCP hooks up us Beta Testers with SOMETHING! Maybe some extra BPO's or maybe lets us keep a percentage of the SP we have earned? I assume this because of the disclaimer when I got the Merc Pack saying that I would have ALL my AUR refunded... Pre-release wipe - some people have said (I haven't seen a confirmed source personally) that we'll get about a week after the wipe before the actual release. But in saying that, keep in mind we're currently earning SP at 4x the intended rate. And with that wipe, ALL Merc Pack gear will be reset. Any items you bought with AUR will be deleted, and all AUR you bought (either through the Merc Pack or other means) will be refunded. Also, the devs are tracking player activity, and each "event" weekend, players who were active in the beta unlock a new special item, which will presumably carry over to the full version. Last week's bonus was a Logistics Dropsuit, I forget what the previous event weekend's reward had been, but I'm pretty sure it's another Dropsuit. When the next build shows up, those items will be appearing in our inventories for us.