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DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
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Posted - 2012.07.12 21:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Now Ive played many FPSs in my day such as Battlefield (PC and PS3), COD, MAG, RFOM and Killzone 2 to name just a few and they all have one thing in common starting out you can kill a higher rank/level player based on skill alone if you are better then them. The biggest flaw Ive seen with dust is that it plays like in mmorpg, people with better gear will always beat the new player based on gear alone not to mention skill points. Now I can see where EVE players who are used to mmorpgs would like that type of game play, but the majority of people playing this game will not be EVE players or mmorpg fans, like it or not your FPS player, and many of them will be turned off by the fact that people who have played game longer are automatically better then them. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2012.07.12 21:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
do you have a suggestion to improve this with the context of the game and make both groups happy? |
Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
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Posted - 2012.07.12 21:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Greetings,
DrunkMonk 1 wrote:but the majority of people playing this game will not be EVE players or mmorpg fans, like it or not your FPS player, and many of them will be turned off by the fact that people who have played game longer are automatically better then them. I suspect that you are wrong on who will be playing this game. In the short term, yes it will be the FPS players, but your own statement shows why I think you are wrong. You, like many of the pure FPS folx that have posted here have a long list of FPS that they have played. You guys tend to move on to the next big thing, whereas some of the EVE players here have been playing EVE for 7+ years. As I have stated in multiple threads, we are the ones who have paid for Dust to be created and we will be paying for it when you guys move on to BF37 or CoD96. Now on to the real point you are trying to make.
I suspect a lot of the EVE players will agree with you. I know for a fact that I am not the only one dislikes the current intra-class equipment imbalances. The current prototype gear should be around 105 - 110% of the basic Type I gear, not the current 180 - 300%. We want to see the character skills to mean more than the gear yes, but of the things we have learned in EVE is that when you tier your equipment like EVE does, that player skill can and will trump character skill when properly supported by character skills. By that I mean a 1 day old character, no matter how good should never be able to take a 7 year old, but a 6 month character who has trained the basic skills up should seriously compete with that 7 year old... This is how it works in EVE.
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Captain Brockbarnes
9
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Posted - 2012.07.12 21:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Also, don't forget, there will be HI-SEC and LOW-SEC, all the advanced players will be in low-sec areas and new players will be in hi-sec, so most of the time you wont be in the same battles. |
Traynor Youngs
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2012.07.12 21:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
In Eve, a new player can defeat a higher skill point player based on player skill alone.
In this game the skill points do two basic things: 1. Open up additional options for gameplay by unlocking vehicles, weapons, etc. 2. Makes combat slightly more forgiving by boosting ammo, reducing spread, etc.
A better FPS player will still likely kill a higher SP player in a 1v1 showdown regardless of gear.
I think you just haven't given the game enough time yet, and you have some false preconceived notions about how Eve works. |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2012.07.12 21:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
i think both groups will be playing the game i know many Fps players who still play older Fps games even though newer version are out. but i agree with asno a flat out newplayer should always be tumped by the older players but specilization can still beat that. |
Asno Masamang
Odd Shadows Inc
122
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Posted - 2012.07.12 22:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Avenger 245 wrote:i think both groups will be playing the game i know many Fps players who still play older Fps games even though newer version are out. I really hope you are right. Dust has so much potential, but as I stated, too many of the FPS players on these forums have long lists of FPS games that they have already walked away from...
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Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2012.07.12 22:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
true hard core Fps, are rare compared to all the other types of gamers most gamers will have a game or system they play for years becasue of loyalty, people will do strange thing becasue of loyalty to something. once dust gets a sizable playerbase it will be able to keep old players and keep a constant influx of new players thanks to F2P.
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DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
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Posted - 2012.07.12 23:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Asno Masamang wrote:Greetings, DrunkMonk 1 wrote:but the majority of people playing this game will not be EVE players or mmorpg fans, like it or not your FPS player, and many of them will be turned off by the fact that people who have played game longer are automatically better then them. I suspect that you are wrong on who will be playing this game. In the short term, yes it will be the FPS players, but your own statement shows why I think you are wrong. You, like many of the pure FPS folx that have posted here have a long list of FPS that they have played. You guys tend to move on to the next big thing, whereas some of the EVE players here have been playing EVE for 7+ years. As I have stated in multiple threads, we are the ones who have paid for Dust to be created and we will be paying for it when you guys move on to BF37 or CoD96. Now on to the real point you are trying to make. I suspect a lot of the EVE players will agree with you. I know for a fact that I am not the only one dislikes the current intra-class equipment imbalances. The current prototype gear should be around 105 - 110% of the basic Type I gear, not the current 180 - 300%. We want to see the character skills to mean more than the gear yes, but of the things we have learned in EVE is that when you tier your equipment like EVE does, that player skill can and will trump character skill when properly supported by character skills. By that I mean a 1 day old character, no matter how good should never be able to take a 7 year old, but a 6 month character who has trained the basic skills up should seriously compete with that 7 year old... This is how it works in EVE.
I do agree that a lot of the pure fps crowd will leave the game as soon as the next thing comes out. But I myself and lot of people I have been playing with for a while would love to find a game we could stick with most of us are only playing battlefield 3 right now because mag died. However that dosnt mean this game which is an FPS should play like an mmorpg, player skill should be more important then gear and character skill in an fps. If you want people from the fps crowd to stick around you have to a game they enjoy enough. If everyone who isnt an EVE player stoped playing this game there probably wouldnt be enough of a player base for them to keep it running and enjoyable. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.12 23:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
the big boys will play outside carebear land, don't worry.
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Longshot Ravenwood
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
680
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Posted - 2012.07.12 23:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
The game is very skills based & team oriented as opposed to a 1v1 setup. If you line up like good little soldier and shoot at eachother while just standing there, yeah the guy with the better gear & skills will probably win...but if you fight smart, coordinate, and strategize you'll be able to much more effectively kill your opponent.
Things like timing grenades so that they go off as you back your opponent toward them, drawing the enemy into a trap, setting up staging areas in secure locations, are all pieces of skill that you employ to overcome your opponent.
Also -- some of the hit detection needs work. Once hit detection is completely fixed it should feel much more skill based. |
Diagon Vasari
63
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Posted - 2012.07.13 00:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Now Ive played many FPSs in my day such as Battlefield (PC and PS3), COD, MAG, RFOM and Killzone 2 to name just a few and they all have one thing in common starting out you can kill a higher rank/level player based on skill alone if you are better then them. The biggest flaw Ive seen with dust is that it plays like in mmorpg, people with better gear will always beat the new player based on gear alone not to mention skill points. Now I can see where EVE players who are used to mmorpgs would like that type of game play, but the majority of people playing this game will not be EVE players or mmorpg fans, like it or not your FPS player, and many of them will be turned off by the fact that people who have played game longer are automatically better then them.
well it is a MMOFPS
HERP DERP!
way to fail |
bjorn morkai
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.07.13 00:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
it is skill based. you fight in battles, you earn SP, you level up a skill. |
DrunkMonk 1
Walmart Brand Mercenaries
26
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Posted - 2012.07.13 01:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Diagon Vasari wrote:DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Now Ive played many FPSs in my day such as Battlefield (PC and PS3), COD, MAG, RFOM and Killzone 2 to name just a few and they all have one thing in common starting out you can kill a higher rank/level player based on skill alone if you are better then them. The biggest flaw Ive seen with dust is that it plays like in mmorpg, people with better gear will always beat the new player based on gear alone not to mention skill points. Now I can see where EVE players who are used to mmorpgs would like that type of game play, but the majority of people playing this game will not be EVE players or mmorpg fans, like it or not your FPS player, and many of them will be turned off by the fact that people who have played game longer are automatically better then them. well it is a MMOFPS HERP DERP! way to fail HAHA you're so funny because you said herp derp |
Azura dark
31
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Posted - 2012.07.13 02:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
my friend that was in the beta, says he hates the game, as it rewards those that have much time to play and punishes those that can play only a few hours a week , he said he would buy AUR but it's so unbalanced as his fps skills mean nothing , he has played the beta hated it because of this and deleted dust, also i know someone else in the beta that quit because they also said you dont stand a chance againsed people that have been playing a while. i dont care what anyone thinks many many people will not like dust because they will play it for a couple of games to see if they like it and will get destroyed ..and delete dust , i guarantee it.
a new player will be disadvantaged due: people with more dmg from skills added to that more dmg from guns added to that more dmg from modules added to that people with alott more hp from dropsuits.
i can uderstand the many people that have quit dust . first impressions of a game decide if they stay or leave. something ccp should look at , this is a fps on console , not a mmo on pc. unbalance in eve works , unbalance in a fps..not gonna be pretty, not when its your first few games that decide if you stay or leave.
+1 op this is a massive issue i feel ccp need to look at. imo they should make using advanced or prototype gear in highsec unapealing somehow, maybe with the price of the advanced especially prototype gear. |
Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
71
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Posted - 2012.07.13 02:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
It is, its just you need an amazing amount of skill to do so. I have an advance assault suit yet militia ar's kill me. I have an advanced mass driver but I've kill an advanced heavy with a proto HMG. Skill wins depending on the situation usually though. Ig theres more than one enemie and there's only one of you then chances are you're gonna lose (unless you're protoman) |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.07.13 03:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Azura dark wrote:my friend that was in the beta, says he hates the game, as it rewards those that have much time to play and punishes those that can play only a few hours a week , he said he would buy AUR but it's so unbalanced as his fps skills mean nothing , he has played the beta hated it because of this and deleted dust, also i know someone else in the beta that quit because they also said you dont stand a chance againsed people that have been playing a while. i dont care what anyone thinks many many people will not like dust because they will play it for a couple of games to see if they like it and will get destroyed ..and delete dust , i guarantee it.
a new player will be disadvantaged due: people with more dmg from skills added to that more dmg from guns added to that more dmg from modules added to that people with alott more hp from dropsuits.
i can uderstand the many people that have quit dust . first impressions of a game decide if they stay or leave. something ccp should look at , this is a fps on console , not a mmo on pc. unbalance in eve works , unbalance in a fps..not gonna be pretty, not when its your first few games that decide if you stay or leave.
+1 op this is a massive issue i feel ccp need to look at. imo they should make using advanced or prototype gear in highsec unapealing somehow, maybe with the price of the advanced especially prototype gear.
the price of gear will be drastically increased u will not be able to run full proto gear and actually fund it in hisec matches tanks will cost a **** ton as well dont let the beta confuse u, its lowered for testing ignore the current cost of stuff atm
use the E3 2011 trailer for price references on how much stuff might actually cost
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Boss Dirge
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
71
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Posted - 2012.07.13 04:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
They are called "skill points". That means the people who are kicking your ass in proto gear had to "skillfully shoot other people in the face" to earn the necessary skillpoints to run the awesome stuff they are thrashing you with.
So far I am not very skilled at Dust, which means I am still running a standard drop suit and an advanced assault rifle. I do know from playing Eve though that there are many ways to help level the playing field and the best way is to not automatically quit when you go 2/10 in a match. Look at your ****** drop suit and try to find a way to tune it a little. I went from consistently getting my ass kicked to breaking even just by trying to cram as much low level crap mods onto my drop suit as possible as well as training a few vital skills. |
Diagon Vasari
63
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Posted - 2012.07.13 04:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Diagon Vasari wrote:DrunkMonk 1 wrote:Now Ive played many FPSs in my day such as Battlefield (PC and PS3), COD, MAG, RFOM and Killzone 2 to name just a few and they all have one thing in common starting out you can kill a higher rank/level player based on skill alone if you are better then them. The biggest flaw Ive seen with dust is that it plays like in mmorpg, people with better gear will always beat the new player based on gear alone not to mention skill points. Now I can see where EVE players who are used to mmorpgs would like that type of game play, but the majority of people playing this game will not be EVE players or mmorpg fans, like it or not your FPS player, and many of them will be turned off by the fact that people who have played game longer are automatically better then them. well it is a MMOFPS HERP DERP! way to fail HAHA you're so funny because you said herp derp
thanks ill be here all night |
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