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Richter Harmon
Interstellar Duster Corp.
6
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Posted - 2012.07.07 18:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so I went out and bit the bullet in order to try out the Move support. After one match, I pretty much locked down the major problem that will hold it back from being an actually viable control option.
As it stands right now, when you use the Move, the crosshair unlocks from the center of the screen and is able to free aim across it, absolute to where the controller is pointing at the screen. This at least works pretty well. If you strafe with your target to help keep them centered, and aim the crosshair with the screen, you can generally hold your targets pretty well. The problem arises when you have to turn your view.
As it is right now, to turn the camera you have to move the crosshair all the way to the edge of the screen and push against the side (for simplicity, we'll call this edge pushing). Sounds like it would work ok, but the problem is that you have to break your aim in order to do it, meaning that you can't, say, come around a corner and maintain an aim, to say nothing of circle strafing. The problem is compounded when you aim down the sights of your weapon, where your aim is ONLY moved by edge pushing, making the view completely useless.
So how can it be fixed? Well, there are a couple options. First off, we need to acknowledge that different kinds of weapon systems will need different kinds of aiming systems. For example, the current edge pushing solution actually works OK for high mobility turrets like the ones on dropships. Set your firing window, and open fire, but you still have the issue of holding aim on a target that's leaving that field of view. However since we aren't using the left stick while in these emplacements (and this can be done for DS3 and KBM as well) set it so that the left stick/WASD can be used to set your rough aim, while using the right stick/mouse/Move for your precision aim.
When on foot, the issue becomes navigating while aiming being complicated by edge pushing. Edge pushing quite simply doesn't work here. Instead, rotating your view should be done based on how far away you move the cross hair from the center of the screen, accounting for a customizable deadzone (I'd say between 5% to 25% of the screen via radius from center). Outside of that dead zone, your view will rotate faster the further the crosshair is over the line, to a limit set by the player. Further, maximum turn speed should be reachable before the player hits the edge of the screen, again this being a custom option for the player (perhaps 75% to 90% away from the center of the screen). Further, in order to allow the player to fine tune the feel of the controls, make all of these options adjustable for both vertical and horizontal, so that a player can theoretically have either a perfect circle deadtone and/or turnzone, or an oval shaped one to their preference (likely based on their screen shape). Finally, when using Move actually draw in the deadzone and turnzone borders to help players get a better idea of what kind of input they are actually putting into the game. The overall idea of this setup is that as players aim at a target that isn't dead center, it gets drawn towards the center of the player's view. Further, by changing the deadzone and turnzone borders, different playstyles can be accommodated, whether the player wants to have a lot of freedom on screen to aim without changing their view window, or wants to have fast, twitch style view mobility, or anything in between.
Lastly, when aiming down the sights of a weapon, zoom the aim to where the crosshair is pointed, as opposed to the center of the screen, and reset that position as a temporary center until the player releases the sight aim button.
So, what does everybody think? I don't have a lot of time here, but later I'll draw up some concept sketches to better illustrate what I mean by the deadzone and turnzone borders and post them up here later.
~Dudeman Jones |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 20:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Basically, a much better (read: working) deadzone adjustment would be a HUGE improvement.
At the moment, even minimum deadzone doesn't seem to improve the problem at all. |
Richter Harmon
Interstellar Duster Corp.
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 20:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Basically, a much better (read: working) deadzone adjustment would be a HUGE improvement.
At the moment, even minimum deadzone doesn't seem to improve the problem at all.
Well more than that cause edge pushing just doesn't work well in an fps. Also, the dead zone adjustment is backwards. Crank it up and work down.
~Dudeman Jones |
Geirskoegul
Soul-Strike
134
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Posted - 2012.07.07 20:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
This is the issue with all ps3 shooters with move support, and even Metroid on the Wii. The best solution is both a step forward and a step back: implement it like Metroid on the Gamecube. For the move control scheme, the stick would be turning and forward/backward movement. Hold a modifier key and it becomes strafing, forward motion, and backward motion. This is not ideal, but it's the best, and the only, compromise i've found for the control scheme. Having the motion controller be anything but an absolute aim for the current screen picture (i.e. like arcade games with light guns) just isn't intuitive and doesn't work well.
In the end it's moot, though, since I get to use a real fps control scheme (kb/m) in the next patch :-) |
Richter Harmon
Interstellar Duster Corp.
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 23:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
I can understand where you are coming from there, but at the same time I think that this can work its just a matter of presentation. Also, I'm not willing to say "Yea Move sucks but we still have KBM so whatever"; I want every control option to be excellent. From the little bit I played as a drop ship gunner I bet that it would be ideal thanks to fast and precise target acquisition.
If any devs are reading this, can you say if there is going to be any further development on the Move controls?
~Dudeman Jones |
Richter Harmon
Interstellar Duster Corp.
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 04:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just played another game with the Move, this time using the Sharpshooter. The rifle mount makes the game a little easier to play via Move, but it's still not perfect.
A few more things I noticed this session.
1.) A lot of menus call for R2. There is no R2 on the Move controller. The actual trigger isn't used for anything in menus though, so I'm guessing that it's an oversight. If not, then set the Move Trigger to work where R2 would.
2.) There is no good way to crouch while using the Sharpshooter, especially if you have the controls set to hold crouch instead of toggle crouch.
3.) There is no way to quick swap weapons using Move. I'd suggest a quick press of the Move button to switch to the last held weapon, while a long press brings up the equipment menu.
4.) The calibration needs reworked. Unless I'm mistaken, as it stands right now the game calibrates dead center aim as the move controller pointing directly at the camera, and not at the screen.
As far as potential, once the kinks get ironed out of the Move controls, I can easily see them having a strong advantage for twitch gameplay. It's very easy to acquire and hold targets while firing from the hip, and if you use weapons like shotguns you can be pretty damn deadly. I ended up in more than a few firefights though where circle strafing would have been beneficial, but the ability to aim somewhat independent of sight was pretty useful a few times.
~Dudeman Jones |
Ender Storm
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2012.07.08 04:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
I wold like to be able to "lock" the crosshair in a way it dosent roam thru the screen, and act like the ps3 controler crosshair.
Also, calibration sucks, its very fustrating. |
Mirun Hirute
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2012.07.08 06:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Richter, since yours is the most recent thread on this, want to add in what I think you haven't yet from my experience with it:
The reticule as the primary means of aim. There's nothing wrong with this inherently, but the gun should shift with the reticule, as right now there's this awkward disconnect between the two. This disconnect applies even more blatantly when trying to scope in and snipe enemies when using the Move.
Comms Input. Trying to use the Move controller to tap in text via the virtual keyboard is unresponsive right now. Sometimes X must be tapped twice before it detects the button press and inputs the letter selected. |
Richter Harmon
Interstellar Duster Corp.
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 12:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ender Storm wrote:I wold like to be able to "lock" the crosshair in a way it dosent roam thru the screen, and act like the ps3 controler crosshair.
Also, calibration sucks, its very fustrating.
Unfortunately, calibration is just a fact of life with the Move. No way around it. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Richter Harmon wrote:Ender Storm wrote:I wold like to be able to "lock" the crosshair in a way it dosent roam thru the screen, and act like the ps3 controler crosshair.
Also, calibration sucks, its very fustrating. Unfortunately, calibration is just a fact of life with the Move. No way around it.
Having to calibrate is a fact of life.
Having terrible implementation of the system isn't.
Many games have a one-touch "quick recalibrate" option that you can use to clean things up when it starts getting inconsistent. No need for full relaibcration mid-fight. DUST is missing that. |
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Richter Harmon
Interstellar Duster Corp.
6
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Posted - 2012.07.08 16:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Richter Harmon wrote:Ender Storm wrote:I wold like to be able to "lock" the crosshair in a way it dosent roam thru the screen, and act like the ps3 controler crosshair.
Also, calibration sucks, its very fustrating. Unfortunately, calibration is just a fact of life with the Move. No way around it. Having to calibrate is a fact of life. Having terrible implementation of the system isn't. Many games have a one-touch "quick recalibrate" option that you can use to clean things up when it starts getting inconsistent. No need for full relaibcration mid-fight. DUST is missing that.
No I'll absolutely agree with you there.
Also, I'm just noticing that there is no way to do melee with Move.
Also, as far as I know using the Sharpshooter provides extra functions to the Move which can be addressed differently than just extending buttons down onto the gun itself, like the fire selection modes and pump action on the forward grip.
However, right now the pump action fires your gun for mostly no reason, and it's driving me nuts. Make that be a melee trigger!
~Dudeman Jones |
Richter Harmon
Interstellar Duster Corp.
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mirun Hirute wrote:Richter, since yours is the most recent thread on this, want to add in what I think you haven't yet from my experience with it:
The reticule as the primary means of aim. There's nothing wrong with this inherently, but the gun should shift with the reticule, as right now there's this awkward disconnect between the two. This disconnect applies even more blatantly when trying to scope in and snipe enemies when using the Move.
That would be a nice detail to add, I'll agree, but at this point that's more a cosmetic detail I think. While the extra input of seeing your weapon angle off would help, as would the deadzone/turnzone borders, the mechanics of the controls are what need addressed first.
In fact this control method is starting to grow on me for fast target acquisition and being able to cover multiple areas of the screen rapidly. While I still think that the turnzone mechanic I detailed above should be implimented, I'm starting to get the hang of aiming with it, especially once I started using the Sharpshooter.
~Dudeman Jones |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Richter Harmon wrote:Also, I'm just noticing that there is no way to do melee with Move.
Don't worry. 90% of the time, there's no way to do melee with the Sixaxis controller either :)
Seriously, that needs fixing. |
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