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Adapt or Die vs Exploit

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Jonquill Caronite Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.07.07 11:43:00 - [1] - Quote I've been playing EVE for a few years now, but also play First Person shooters religiously, and I can see both sides of the arguments here... So lets start making some things clear and see how many people I get to agree with me... This is not a standard First Person Shooter, the controls for aiming could be better, and I'm not talking about Aim Assist I'm just talking about sensitivity controls. Further the character models could move more smoothly and these are both legitimate complaints, I have no idea how these complaints keep getting shot down, this isn't a matter of adapt or die, this is a quality issue. Is it unplayable as is? Absolutely not, its not bad, but it couldn't hold a candle to current shooters even without aim assist disabled, this is the quality I expect from last generations consoles, which is fine since its a Beta, but should be improved before release... Next point balancing, YES there needs to be some sort of balancing, but not like people are talking about. It needs to be cost benefit balancing, and that is all. On this point I am on EVE players side, the key is that there should always be a way to spend LESS ISK to kill something that cost MORE ISK. That's how EVE works and that's how you know things are balanced. However, the more ISK you spend the more you should be able to handle, so if you spend 350,000 ISK, then you should last very well against an equal amount of ISK worth of players UNLESS their ISK was invested in your weakness.. In which case you should die. For the most part the game is working as is intended... HOWEVER, against the EVE players this point. There are game features and exploits being used right now that are not part of the original design... This is not a show of creativity... This is something completely different. Adapt or die does not apply, these aren't glitches but all vehicles, suits, modules and terrain should work as intended... Players should not be dying because someone discovered that the weapons on their dropship pack less punch then just dropping the dropship on their enemies heads, this is a balance and exploit issue, it needs to be resolved so the dropships are being used as the developers intended, until they are being used this way, THIS IS AN EXPLOIT. Further, using the clip range to hide or run from locks is not a legitimate tactic... Spawn camping isn't either this is not an adapt and overcome issue, it takes skill to push people back that same skill should be used to continue to fight not become unnecessary because their spawn is in view and you can just shoot at the same point where your enemies heads pop into existence... There are a number of issues, and both sides have equally as many problems. THIS IS NOT CALL OF DUTY, and it wont and shouldn't be, if it tried to be it would fail, Call of duty is much better at being Call of duty then dust will ever be, Dust should be Dust... However EVE players, every aspect of the game that is temporarily advantageous and has a 'theoretical' counter is not kosher, just because it can be countered doesn't mean its right, if its not operating as intended it needs to be fixed, period and you need to all remember that, particularly since this is a Beta and these are exactly the type of problems were supposed to be looking for, and many of you are treating it as though this should be the final product, which is just an embarrassment of ignorance.
Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.07 12:02:00 - [2] - Quote Ok, seriously, there were 2 other dropship/tower thread on the FRONT PAGE of this subforum when you posted this. You don't even have being too lazy to search as an excuse. Either you're an entitled brat or you need to seriously see an optometrist. There's no other explanation.
Jonquill Caronite Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.07.07 12:44:00 - [3] - Quote Seeker of Cheese wrote: Ok, seriously, there were 2 other dropship/tower thread on the FRONT PAGE of this subforum when you posted this. You don't even have being too lazy to search as an excuse. Either you're an entitled brat or you need to seriously see an optometrist. There's no other explanation. Or the post covered more then just the towers and was a statement on the complaints going both ways in their entirety... Glad you saw what you wanted though and got your flame on.
Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.07 12:55:00 - [4] - Quote And glad to see your sense of self importance required your vewwy own special thread just for you instead of posting about each of those issues in one of the 20 existing threads for them.
Jonquill Caronite Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.07.07 13:08:00 - [5] - Quote Difference is simple, those threads posted to complain about the problems this thread primarily is a comparison and contrast of the the fact that each side is overlooking key factors about the opposing side... In any case, it is a little redundant but a lot of the posts are a little redundant, and a lot of the arguments being used to address EVERY exploit in this game are a bit redundant, and a lot of the threads on balancing in general are a bit redundant. In fact the whole bloody forum is relatively redundant, except you actually, i tend to like proving my points so i figured I'd run a quick search and find some threads in which you posted basically the same message slightly altered, and to my surprise your one of the few who doesn't do such things... In any case I'll take this hit you're absolutely 100% right, sooo....... I'll let this thread die and try and revive the oldest threads on these topics to give my two cents, criticism noted and taken =).
Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.07 14:27:00 - [6] - Quote Jonquill Caronite wrote: In fact the whole bloody forum is relatively redundant, except you actually, i tend to like proving my points so i figured I'd run a quick search and find some threads in which you posted basically the same message slightly altered, and to my surprise your one of the few who doesn't do such things... I expect nothing more from others than I'm willing to do myself. I figure that's fair. Thanks, and happy posting in the future
Traynor Youngs Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 287	Posted - 2012.07.07 14:44:00 - [7] - Quote Im sorry, you lost me when you said running away to break locks was an exploit. Its called RETREATING! How is that an exploit? Is it an exploit because you cannot kill someone as easily as you feel you should? I will agree that the dropship smashing is probably not working as intended, but to be honest, you can get more kills and contribute more to the team and put yourself in less danger by using the DS as intended and so I don't think of it as an exploit. I think of it like high sec ganking. The Devs clearly never meant for people to sacrifice their ships to concord by alpha striking someone with juicy cargo, but it happens. I think that this is a dead issue. People are always going to try smashing people, by a well flown dropship with a hold full of mercs and good gunners will always get better kills anyway. Dropship smushing is more a result of people not wanting to be gunners and DS pilots wishing we had something to do than it is about easier/better results. Spawn camping is a known bug and not working as intended. If you had spend 2 minutes looking around you would have seen it by now.
Drake-696 Doomheim 53	Posted - 2012.07.07 14:50:00 - [8] - Quote Seeker of Cheese wrote: Ok, seriously, there were 2 other dropship/tower thread on the FRONT PAGE of this subforum when you posted this. You don't even have being too lazy to search as an excuse. Either you're an entitled brat or you need to seriously see an optometrist. There's no other explanation. Either you fail at reading and need to see an optometrist or there's no other explanation. Seriously, he covered several points in a well written fashion, as opposed to the typical, omfg dropships are teh sux. Nerf! Not that I necessarily agree with all his points or disagree with them all, but nonconstructive posts, such as yours, especially when his was, are just silly. Troll on.
Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.07 19:32:00 - [9] - Quote Drake, the matter was settled and you're stirring it up for your entertainment. Who's the troll here?
Tosh Tearg BetaMax. 53	Posted - 2012.07.07 22:43:00 - [10] - Quote Seeker of Cheese wrote: Ok, seriously, there were 2 other dropship/tower thread on the FRONT PAGE of this subforum when you posted this. You don't even have being too lazy to search as an excuse. Either you're an entitled brat or you need to seriously see an optometrist. There's no other explanation. wow.. dude.. is there anyone you don't insult? Funny cause when you're shown to be in the wrong.. you just stop replying to the thread instead of manning up. OP.. good post.. and I wouldn't listen to anything this guy says.

Tosh Tearg BetaMax. 53	Posted - 2012.07.07 22:46:00 - [11] - Quote Traynor Youngs wrote: Im sorry, you lost me when you said running away to break locks was an exploit. Its called RETREATING! How is that an exploit? I read that as dropships running out of bounds on the map.. I think that instabreaks the lock on them. (Not sure though will have to test, but I never tried) in any case.. that's how I read that point of his.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.07.07 22:59:00 - [12] - Quote Traynor Youngs wrote: Im sorry, you lost me when you said running away to break locks was an exploit. Its called RETREATING! How is that an exploit? . There is a difference. With the current limited view range on vehicles, you can outrun anyone trying to get a lock on you, not because of skill, but because you are tripping the game, preventing the enemy from making a lock they should have gotten.
Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.08 00:38:00 - [13] - Quote Tosh Tearg wrote: you just stop replying to the thread instead of manning up Umm, are you blind? Several other replies, whole damn conversation in fact. One RIGHT above your claim that I haven't responded. Bloody hell man, if you're going to try to attack me at least do it in reality instead of in your head.
Tosh Tearg BetaMax. 53	Posted - 2012.07.08 03:48:00 - [14] - Quote Seeker of Cheese wrote: Tosh Tearg wrote: you just stop replying to the thread instead of manning up Umm, are you blind? Several other replies, whole damn conversation in fact. One RIGHT above your claim that I haven't responded. Bloody hell man, if you're going to try to attack me at least do it in reality instead of in your head. I was referring to this one.. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=177026#post177026
Seeker of Cheese Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.07.08 03:51:00 - [15] - Quote You reference a thread that I haven't been following and didn't notice your pissy reply in, without a link. Umm, yeah, in case you didn't get the memo, there's no such things as psychics. Might want to keep that in mind for your next tantrum.
Beta Phish Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2012.07.08 04:17:00 - [16] - Quote Abusing Vehicles takes NO SKILL. go back to EVE now. for you to suggest the COD comparison of what players want is utterly & stupidly WRONG.
Corvus Ravensong Skyel Industries Subspace Exploration Agency 179	Posted - 2012.07.08 06:27:00 - [17] - Quote Abusing vehicles is fine with me. I just want to have the draw distance to retaliate.


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