DUST Search - Premade builds to help newbies

S-Park Finner wrote:

I like the idea of builds that show off a variety of play styles.

In EVE there is the idea of "certificates" -- these are packages of skills that are considered the minimum requirements for certain play styles. There's a "skill planner" that lets you browse them.

It's a lot of development work but a similar system in DUST 514 might be a good idea if it's tied to Rafgas first's demo build idea.

If you added a page to the market entry for an item that pointed to the demo builds that included the item and to the certificates that enabled the item...

And you had a flashy graphic browser with all the demo builds that let you buy the stuff in the build with a right click and pointed to the certificate planner entries that enabled the build...

And the certificate planner pointed you back to the demo builds while letting you set up a "this is my list of skills to buy next" page then...

TL:DR

A player could check out builds and say "Hey -- that tank setup looks good" -- get a list of the skills they need to drive it -- buy the first book and start training it all starting right from the screen where they said "I _really_ want to drive that tank" and never being more than one click away.

On the other hand -- that you have to learn about the tank, learn about the fits for it, plan the training, buy the books in the right order, train the skills and all the while do enough in the game to pay for it all _is_ kind of the bottom line on the problem isn't it? :)

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Rafgas first BetaMax. 18	Posted - 2012.07.06 18:06:00 - [1] - Quote The militia builds are like demo builds of most basic roles on the battlefield, snipe, assault, anti-vehicle and logi. But where to go from there? Many of our new players(at launch) will have no idea of the versatility of different fits on the suits. Solution. Demo builds to show players what basic possibilities are available within each suitgroup, for example, a buffer shield HMG build, a passive repair armor forge gun. A speed oriented scout with SMG and shotgun, a dmg boosted assault with breach. Etc, anything that showcases well the versatility of the suits, just by changing two mods and a weapon, the playstyle changes a ton, this, i feel, would teach newbies without tutorials how the fittings idea works in dust. How to sell them? Here there are two basic ideas. Aurum, the aurum build would be an upgrade from the militia, but worse that T1 builds, they would let the player to test out the basic idea before commiting SP to his builds. so the Aurum build would let a player use better than militia gear, but worse than T1 without getting any skills, to start to think about specialization after haven gotten the basic idea from militia builds. Isk. Here the player would need to upgrade his skills to be able to use the build, the build would give a little text in description stating advantages and drawbacks, and perhaps possible scenarios. It would also list skills needed by the player and total sp needed, as deficit or total. This so that A, the player see's how far of he is, and B, gives him option of "Train all skills needed for this build" [EDIT] Important point that i feel needs emphasizing. These builds are always just to show possibilities, they are not a crutch to lean on, since Aurum model is actually worse modules for a no SP investement cost or Isk build is SP investment cost but not optimal build, so both leave room for improvement either way. The idea is to teach, not to be a cookie cutter.
Finn Kempers BetaMax. 222	Posted - 2012.07.06 18:10:00 - [2] - Quote +1 from discussion in IRC
Linnar Wu'ut 1	Posted - 2012.07.06 18:13:00 - [3] - Quote I like the idea, but even the Aurum items / builds have skill requirements that us new players simply won't have. That's not to say they couldn't create them, but based on the Aurum items thus far the stat requirements are only slightly lower than ISK items, not removed.
Rafgas first BetaMax. 18	Posted - 2012.07.06 18:17:00 - [4] - Quote Linnar Wu'ut wrote: I like the idea, but even the Aurum items / builds have skill requirements that us new players simply won't have. That's not to say they couldn't create them, but based on the Aurum items thus far the stat requirements are only slightly lower than ISK items, not removed. Like the post said, these builds wouldnt be as good as t1 items, thus even worse than normal aurum items. Personally, i favor the ISK method a little bit, but then, thats just me.
S-Park Finner 1	Posted - 2012.07.06 18:59:00 - [5] - Quote I like the idea of builds that show off a variety of play styles. In EVE there is the idea of "certificates" -- these are packages of skills that are considered the minimum requirements for certain play styles. There's a "skill planner" that lets you browse them. It's a lot of development work but a similar system in DUST 514 might be a good idea if it's tied to Rafgas first's demo build idea. If you added a page to the market entry for an item that pointed to the demo builds that included the item and to the certificates that enabled the item... And you had a flashy graphic browser with all the demo builds that let you buy the stuff in the build with a right click and pointed to the certificate planner entries that enabled the build... And the certificate planner pointed you back to the demo builds while letting you set up a "this is my list of skills to buy next" page then... TL:DR A player could check out builds and say "Hey -- that tank setup looks good" -- get a list of the skills they need to drive it -- buy the first book and start training it all starting right from the screen where they said "I _really_ want to drive that tank" and never being more than one click away. On the other hand -- that you have to learn about the tank, learn about the fits for it, plan the training, buy the books in the right order, train the skills and all the while do enough in the game to pay for it all _is_ kind of the bottom line on the problem isn't it? :)
Finn Kempers BetaMax. 222	Posted - 2012.07.06 19:22:00 - [6] - Quote S-Park Finner wrote: I like the idea of builds that show off a variety of play styles. In EVE there is the idea of "certificates" -- these are packages of skills that are considered the minimum requirements for certain play styles. There's a "skill planner" that lets you browse them. It's a lot of development work but a similar system in DUST 514 might be a good idea if it's tied to Rafgas first's demo build idea. If you added a page to the market entry for an item that pointed to the demo builds that included the item and to the certificates that enabled the item... And you had a flashy graphic browser with all the demo builds that let you buy the stuff in the build with a right click and pointed to the certificate planner entries that enabled the build... And the certificate planner pointed you back to the demo builds while letting you set up a "this is my list of skills to buy next" page then... TL:DR A player could check out builds and say "Hey -- that tank setup looks good" -- get a list of the skills they need to drive it -- buy the first book and start training it all starting right from the screen where they said "I _really_ want to drive that tank" and never being more than one click away. On the other hand -- that you have to learn about the tank, learn about the fits for it, plan the training, buy the books in the right order, train the skills and all the while do enough in the game to pay for it all _is_ kind of the bottom line on the problem isn't it? :) Well the main idea of rafgas' idea was when discussing on IRC is to give players a easy way to find their suitable playstyle without too huge a price.
Linnar Wu'ut 1	Posted - 2012.07.06 19:38:00 - [7] - Quote Rafgas first wrote: Linnar Wu'ut wrote: I like the idea, but even the Aurum items / builds have skill requirements that us new players simply won't have. That's not to say they couldn't create them, but based on the Aurum items thus far the stat requirements are only slightly lower than ISK items, not removed. Like the post said, these builds wouldnt be as good as t1 items, thus even worse than normal aurum items. Personally, i favor the ISK method a little bit, but then, thats just me. smacks self Somehow I completely missed the no-skills part when I read the post. Personally, I'd like to have it available via ISK or Aurum. I've actually been looking through the market for things like that but haven't found any. I suppose can't be done on a single item since it would then set an ISK::AUR ratio.
Rafgas first BetaMax. 18	Posted - 2012.07.06 19:47:00 - [8] - Quote Finn Kempers wrote: S-Park Finner wrote: TL:DR A player could check out builds and say "Hey -- that tank setup looks good" -- get a list of the skills they need to drive it -- buy the first book and start training it all starting right from the screen where they said "I _really_ want to drive that tank" and never being more than one click away. On the other hand -- that you have to learn about the tank, learn about the fits for it, plan the training, buy the books in the right order, train the skills and all the while do enough in the game to pay for it all _is_ kind of the bottom line on the problem isn't it? :) Well the main idea of rafgas' idea was when discussing on IRC is to give players a easy way to find their suitable playstyle without too huge a price. Also, important part i left out. These premade builds are always ok, but with room for improvement. So they are premade, but are not good enough to lean on forever.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.07.06 19:55:00 - [9] - Quote Rafgas first wrote: The militia builds are like demo builds of most basic roles on the battlefield, snipe, assault, anti-vehicle and logi. But where to go from there? Many of our new players(at launch) will have no idea of the versatility of different fits on the suits. Solution. Demo builds to show players what basic possibilities are available within each suitgroup, for example, a buffer shield HMG build, a passive repair armor forge gun. A speed oriented scout with SMG and shotgun, a dmg boosted assault with breach. Etc, anything that showcases well the versatility of the suits, just by changing two mods and a weapon, the playstyle changes a ton, this, i feel, would teach newbies without tutorials how the fittings idea works in dust. ====8><---- SNIP Better yet, use the certificate idea from EVE Online, which does give new players an idea what to aim for for a given function.
Rafgas first BetaMax. 18	Posted - 2012.07.06 20:04:00 - [10] - Quote Dewie Cheecham wrote: Rafgas first wrote: The militia builds are like demo builds of most basic roles on the battlefield, snipe, assault, anti-vehicle and logi. But where to go from there? Many of our new players(at launch) will have no idea of the versatility of different fits on the suits. Solution. Demo builds to show players what basic possibilities are available within each suitgroup, for example, a buffer shield HMG build, a passive repair armor forge gun. A speed oriented scout with SMG and shotgun, a dmg boosted assault with breach. Etc, anything that showcases well the versatility of the suits, just by changing two mods and a weapon, the playstyle changes a ton, this, i feel, would teach newbies without tutorials how the fittings idea works in dust. ====8><---- SNIP Better yet, use the certificate idea from EVE Online, which does give new players an idea what to aim for for a given function. I had considered it, but factored in two things. This is F2P, which could mean less investment from players before they get annoyed and give up, the first 60-120 minutes of gameplay really need to be smooth, informative and show the immense scope of the game. Text on console. not a good mix. Certificates, in my opinion, are for medium to highly advanced players, and i am afraid would be just another complication to be overcome before enjoying the game for new players. I like my idea(who doesnt) because it achieves what a tutorial might, but without the drudgery many feel a tutorial is.

S-Park Finner 1	Posted - 2012.07.06 20:10:00 - [11] - Quote I stuck all the other stuff in because part of the discussion was that people have trouble learning that fits / skills mater. They might not use a combination of demo builds and certificates to learn about it but they could if they wanted to. Free demo builds would give a person a chance to check out play style but how would they know how to go on from there? It seems to me a new player needs to see the way the skill system works to get into the swing of it -- and that includes paying for it -- be it Arum or ISK -- even if it's not too expensive.
Rafgas first BetaMax. 18	Posted - 2012.07.06 20:14:00 - [12] - Quote S-Park Finner wrote: I stuck all the other stuff in because part of the discussion was that people have trouble learning that fits / skills mater. They might not use a combination of demo builds and certificates to learn about it but they could if they wanted to. Free demo builds would give a person a chance to check out play style but how would they know how to go on from there? It seems to me a new player needs to see the way the skill system works to get into the swing of it -- and that includes paying for it -- be it Arum or ISK -- even if it's not too expensive. Exactly the problem this solution is meant to solve !
S-Park Finner 1	Posted - 2012.07.06 20:19:00 - [13] - Quote Rafgas first wrote: Exactly the problem this solution is meant to solve ! I agree it would show them that they could use skills and fit to do better and tailor their play style. I don't agree it would show them how to do it. And I don't think it would extend to higher levels where tying builds to skills to the market could help even advanced players.
Milk Supreme ZionTCD Legacy Rising 127	Posted - 2012.07.06 20:26:00 - [14] - Quote I think some good tooltips, popup boxes and optional tutorial pieces when you try out something new would be sufficient. People would try experimenting with different stuff until they get the hang of it, but just add in reminders to the new guys that the option is there for them to try.
Rafgas first BetaMax. 18	Posted - 2012.07.06 20:47:00 - [15] - Quote S-Park Finner wrote: Rafgas first wrote: Exactly the problem this solution is meant to solve ! I agree it would show them that they could use skills and fit to do better and tailor their play style. I don't agree it would show them how to do it. And I don't think it would extend to higher levels where tying builds to skills to the market could help even advanced players. The How is covered in the list of skills that each setup needs, and specifically what skills the player needs to improve or get. That was the idea atleast.
Rafgas first BetaMax. 18	Posted - 2012.07.06 20:49:00 - [16] - Quote Milk Supreme wrote: I think some good tooltips, popup boxes and optional tutorial pieces when you try out something new would be sufficient. People would try experimenting with different stuff until they get the hang of it, but just add in reminders to the new guys that the option is there for them to try. Anything that can be done without text should be, text on PC is already pretty annoying to most users, and tutorials are so often skipped, and if unskippable are hated. So one of the main objectives for how to solve the problem was, for me, since im just a player brainstorming, to avoid tutorials, voiceovers, or anything of the sort.
Finn Kempers BetaMax. 222	Posted - 2012.07.06 21:04:00 - [17] - Quote S-Park Finner wrote: Rafgas first wrote: Exactly the problem this solution is meant to solve ! I agree it would show them that they could use skills and fit to do better and tailor their play style. I don't agree it would show them how to do it. And I don't think it would extend to higher levels where tying builds to skills to the market could help even advanced players. Basically its give them a sword and they see how they swing it for themselves, then giving them a different one until finding one that suits them.
Rafgas first BetaMax. 18	Posted - 2012.07.07 07:35:00 - [18] - Quote Finn Kempers wrote: S-Park Finner wrote: Rafgas first wrote: Exactly the problem this solution is meant to solve ! I agree it would show them that they could use skills and fit to do better and tailor their play style. I don't agree it would show them how to do it. And I don't think it would extend to higher levels where tying builds to skills to the market could help even advanced players. Basically its give them a sword and they see how they swing it for themselves, then giving them a different one until finding one that suits them. A very simplistic view of a very modular system. the point is to show them all the difference a few modules can make for a suit. To get them thinking on what is possible. Thats why its important that the fits would not be perfect, there should be room for improvements.


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