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GIZMO2606
80
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Posted - 2012.07.04 21:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
The DevGÇÖs should take note that the vehicles will soon become a major imbalance to the game. Not because of their high damage potential they can do. They will become a problem because not enough players (Randoms) will worry about taking out vehicles. Yes itGÇÖs the players fault and if you find it a problem, deal with it yourself. Well The only problem with that is that the swarm launcher is nerfed and it doesnGÇÖt do that much damage to vehicles (IGÇÖm using the CB7 and it doesnGÇÖt do enough to take out a tanks even with damage modifiers on.) and the Forage Gun is heavy weapon and a lot of heavies might not want to run it due to the charge time or the fact that gun goes in the heavy slot or just because they want to use the HMG.
My suggestion is to limit the amount of vehicles for each mode the team gets. Say like a 12v12 map. Each team can have 2 tanks 2 drop-ships and 4 LAVs. I know right now each maps lets you have a max limit of 10 vehicles on the map. Well the only problem with that is, say the other time calls 10 vehicles before your team. Well your team is left with no vehicles to call in till one of the other teams vehicles are taken out. This will become a major imbalance if itGÇÖs not addressed and it would also help with the spawn camping problem a bit. Another thing is the war points and ISK for the vehicles. I know that a bug is stopping the Militia grade vehicles from costing anything but you should consider the cost of vehicles to cost a lot more for the upper tier ones. That away it would make players think if it would be in their best interest if they want to use a upper tier vehicle on said map.
This is just my opinion but the vehicle spam has gotten out of hand I personally think and I rarely see randoms worrying about the vehicles. TheyGÇÖll just let them drive/fly by and hope someone else will deal with them and about 70% of the games I play I rarely see anyone beside me dealing with vehicles. IGÇÖm not saying nerf the vehicles. IGÇÖm just saying consider limiting vehicles to a set amount per team not just give both sides a set limit of 10 and look over the ISK/War Point cost of them also. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2012.07.04 22:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like the idea of the War Points being used to limit the vehicles. I think the plan was for you to have to collect some War Points during the match and spend them to call in vehicles.
If they get the War point cost of vehicles right I think that would provide a good balance.
That said I only want balance like that in high sec. In null sec I want the ability to call what you want, when you want, and not even think of balance. Null sec should have the least balancing game mechanics.
In high sec I could understand using limitations for balancing game play. CONCORD rules of engagement type of thing. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.07.04 22:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:That said I only want balance like that in high sec. In null sec I want the ability to call what you want, when you want, and not even think of balance. Null sec should have the least balancing game mechanics.
In high sec I could understand using limitations for balancing game play. CONCORD rules of engagement type of thing.
that.
also, making the vehicles be only paid for would be good. but i believe they added militia for data. |
GIZMO2606
80
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Posted - 2012.07.04 22:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:That said I only want balance like that in high sec. In null sec I want the ability to call what you want, when you want, and not even think of balance. Null sec should have the least balancing game mechanics.
This I agree with. Not having a limit in Null or Lowsec should be what the Dev's do. That away the balance issues would fix themselves. But when in Highsec it will cause a major imbalance with top tier players bring in high end tanks and stomp the new players that would be interested in the game. If the high end tank didn't get destroyed that game they can use it next match again and repeat to farm kills and stat pad. |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
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Posted - 2012.07.04 23:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Easy fix: more Swarm Launcher direct hit damage against tanks. I'm trying to go anti-tank scout, and have destroyed dozens of dropships and militia tanks, but any time someone takes their tricked out tank for a spin, I can barely scratch its paint.
In my last round I fired dozens of salvos and died multiple times just trying to kill one tank. The match ended with his armor at maybe 25%. Considering they can insta kill me on sight and can fire numerous times in between my launches, it's currently not much of a contest. (That's assuming that they don't have infantry backup, either.)
It's also frustrating that nobody ever takes out their good tanks unless the match is already tilting in their favor. The only tank on tank violence I've seen to date has been milita tanks getting two shotted. |
Nick Phantom
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
91
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Posted - 2012.07.04 23:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Each team does currently have a limit for vehicles. Warpoints to call in vehicles makes me ughh..ughhh..ughhh lol. I know corps aren't available yet however once they are I want specific people for tank roles, dropship roles, ect. Making them player specific is terrible once corp functionality is added especially since you have to train for them to get good with them.
Swarm launchers shouldn't take out a sageris with only a few hits. How much are those in comparison with the tank anyway? I'm guessing the tank is a LOT more expensive. Imagine getting your 200,000 isk tank to be taken out with 3 swarm launcher rounds......
Just saying before the vehicle limits are implemented we need to be able to have corps to find out how that changes the game.
I hear you though as it currently stands a lot of PEOPLE (hate the word randoms used to describe people since it's usually used negatively) don't bother with vehicles. I think part of that problem is we need more fitting spots added in the game so we can change out load-out more frequently to deal with specific threats. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
789
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Posted - 2012.07.05 00:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think you misunderstand how the limit works. There is a limit of I think 6 vehicles per team currently. The limit does not apply to both teams at once. It is mostly that once a team has a lot of vehicles, the Tanks and/or forge guns can just snipe the RDV and deny vehicle deployment to the other team.
The main problem is as you say... Not enough people bother to take out vehicles, and when they do they never coordinate their efforts. |
Max Trichomes
Quantum Kittens Syndicate
68
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Posted - 2012.07.05 03:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:The DevGÇÖs should take note that the vehicles will soon become a major imbalance to the game. Not because of their highThis will become a major imbalance if itGÇÖs not addressed and it would also help with the spawn camping problem a bit. Another thing is the war points and ISK for the vehicles. I know that a bug is stopping the Militia grade vehicles from costing anything but you should consider the cost of vehicles to cost a lot more for the upper tier ones. That away it would make players think if it would be in their best interest if they want to use a upper tier vehicle on said map.
You are completely right on this. People shouldn't use top teir tanks in every single pub game. I think it should cost isk to bring them to the field. Currently you are almost guaranteed to make isk using the most expensive tank. It should be a tactical decision, not just a certainty your are bringing out the big guns. Could you imagine if everyone in EVE dropped titans on every tiny gate camp?
Limits shouldn't be put on vehicles. Give each team half the vehicle slots on the map (I am assuming the limit is there for performance reasons.). Let the team decide what they are calling in be it all drop ships, all tanks, a combination, or nothing at all. Personally I see the current problem with vehicle spam is the map design. The maps seem to be big open fields for the most part. In the last map there were a couple buildings at the end which was cool but not enough. Look at any other FPS with vehicles, they always have lots of buildings for the infantry. In Dust these buildings do not exist, infantry are always vulnerable to vehicles. There should be places only infantry can go on the maps, give them an advantage in certain spots on the map. Nearly anywhere you can go on foot you can go in a tank. Vehicles shouldn't be win mode the only thing that matters, vehicles should be a tool to help their team win |
Maximus Chabe
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2012.07.05 06:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Max Trichomes wrote: Personally I see the current problem with vehicle spam is the map design. The maps seem to be big open fields for the most part. In the last map there were a couple buildings at the end which was cool but not enough. Look at any other FPS with vehicles, they always have lots of buildings for the infantry. In Dust these buildings do not exist, infantry are always vulnerable to vehicles. There should be places only infantry can go on the maps, give them an advantage in certain spots on the map. Nearly anywhere you can go on foot you can go in a tank. Vehicles shouldn't be win mode the only thing that matters, vehicles should be a tool to help their team win
Yeah the new map has definitely changed the vehicle dynamics. On the old maps of biomass and communications I would just laugh at the guys that had bought expensive tanks and then I would run back inside. If they wanted to engage the infantry they would have to make themselves very vulnerable in narrow corridors on the second part of the map. On the first part of the map there were multiple areas that were incredibly difficult for most vehicles to reach. The lower part of the canyon was easily accessible to vehicles but dangerous for infantry.
Right now there are very few good killzones for vehicles. They almost always have a good escape route, and they rarely have to make themselves vulnerable against infantry units.
I play as infantry, but I don't think vehicles are very unbalanced right now. I think the map is just very vehicle friendly. |
Archduke Anubis
0
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Posted - 2012.07.05 06:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Max Trichomes wrote:GIZMO2606 wrote:The DevGÇÖs should take note that the vehicles will soon become a major imbalance to the game. Not because of their highThis will become a major imbalance if itGÇÖs not addressed and it would also help with the spawn camping problem a bit. Another thing is the war points and ISK for the vehicles. I know that a bug is stopping the Militia grade vehicles from costing anything but you should consider the cost of vehicles to cost a lot more for the upper tier ones. That away it would make players think if it would be in their best interest if they want to use a upper tier vehicle on said map.
You are completely right on this. People shouldn't use top teir tanks in every single pub game. I think it should cost isk to bring them to the field. Currently you are almost guaranteed to make isk using the most expensive tank. It should be a tactical decision, not just a certainty your are bringing out the big guns. Could you imagine if everyone in EVE dropped titans on every tiny gate camp? Limits shouldn't be put on vehicles. Give each team half the vehicle slots on the map (I am assuming the limit is there for performance reasons.). Let the team decide what they are calling in be it all drop ships, all tanks, a combination, or nothing at all. Personally I see the current problem with vehicle spam is the map design. The maps seem to be big open fields for the most part. In the last map there were a couple buildings at the end which was cool but not enough. Look at any other FPS with vehicles, they always have lots of buildings for the infantry. In Dust these buildings do not exist, infantry are always vulnerable to vehicles. There should be places only infantry can go on the maps, give them an advantage in certain spots on the map. Nearly anywhere you can go on foot you can go in a tank. Vehicles shouldn't be win mode the only thing that matters, vehicles should be a tool to help their team win
I think things should be overall more expensive. |
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Leos Saotome
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2012.07.05 07:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
I agree with OP here but maybe its just that way because the DEVs want to see how to balance the Weapons and Vehicles. But I like the Idea with the WP.
Bout the Randoms not killing the Tanks.... I was getting annoyed to get killed at every damn Hackpoint so I checked the Market if there is something to change that and i have to say that i LOVE the AV Granade ^^ Takes 3 Granades to take the Tank out and get nice WP from it. If more ppl equip the Granade and use it in Battle it should even out. |
GIZMO2606
80
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Posted - 2012.07.05 19:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bump for more ideas and solutions. |
Fat Axel
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.07.05 20:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
GIZMO2606 wrote:The DevGÇÖs should take note that the vehicles will soon become a major imbalance to the game. Not because of their high damage potential they can do. They will become a problem because not enough players (Randoms) will worry about taking out vehicles. Yes itGÇÖs the players fault and if you find it a problem, deal with it yourself. Well The only problem with that is that the swarm launcher is nerfed and it doesnGÇÖt do that much damage to vehicles (IGÇÖm using the CB7 and it doesnGÇÖt do enough to take out a tanks even with damage modifiers on.) and the Forage Gun is heavy weapon and a lot of heavies might not want to run it due to the charge time or the fact that gun goes in the heavy slot or just because they want to use the HMG.
My suggestion is to limit the amount of vehicles for each mode the team gets. Say like a 12v12 map. Each team can have 2 tanks 2 drop-ships and 4 LAVs. I know right now each maps lets you have a max limit of 10 vehicles on the map. Well the only problem with that is, say the other time calls 10 vehicles before your team. Well your team is left with no vehicles to call in till one of the other teams vehicles are taken out. This will become a major imbalance if itGÇÖs not addressed and it would also help with the spawn camping problem a bit. Another thing is the war points and ISK for the vehicles. I know that a bug is stopping the Militia grade vehicles from costing anything but you should consider the cost of vehicles to cost a lot more for the upper tier ones. That away it would make players think if it would be in their best interest if they want to use a upper tier vehicle on said map.
This is just my opinion but the vehicle spam has gotten out of hand I personally think and I rarely see randoms worrying about the vehicles. TheyGÇÖll just let them drive/fly by and hope someone else will deal with them and about 70% of the games I play I rarely see anyone beside me dealing with vehicles. IGÇÖm not saying nerf the vehicles. IGÇÖm just saying consider limiting vehicles to a set amount per team not just give both sides a set limit of 10 and look over the ISK/War Point cost of them also.
i am totally against just about everything you said other than having reserved space for each team to have vehicles, but i do feel like 10 is about enough, it isnt fair that each team doesnt get reserved space, but...... other than that i dont really feel dominated by vehicles, and i think once grouping is added, anything that would dominate a game would have a much more difficult time surviving i.e. ur not just in a tnak killing a guy, ur in a tank killing a guy who has friends that are now mad at you.... |
Remeus Reinheart
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.07.05 20:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
I don't know what you guys are talking about. 2 volleys from a swarm launchers will take out a dropship. They're also almost impossible to avoid because they track the target. If anything vehicles don't have enough EHP. As for tanks, tanks are for dealing with turrets and other tanks so of course they're going to be difficult to take out. And letGÇÖs not forget, a Vehicle is like a carrier in eve, once you're in one everybody and their grandmother wants to take you out. I've completely avoided a swarm launcher volley only to have it come back and hit me in the rear after I've circled half way around a building trying to dodge them. If anything the tracking on swarm launchers needs to be more limited. Also autocannon auto-turrets are stupidly effective verse drop ships. Hell IGÇÖve had people fire volleys in turrets from half way across the map to try to take me out. Vehicles are fine.
If anything I think the current map limits on team numbers actually makes vehicles less useful than they could be. Half the time dropships are empty even if you only have one or 2 on the map.
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Milk Supreme
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
127
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Posted - 2012.07.05 21:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
My only gripe is that Marauders are too cheap.
Totally abusing that until price hike |
Gerg Hammer
20
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Posted - 2012.07.05 23:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
As someone who brings a 266,000 ISK tank into every pub game, I can tell you that I am NOT guaranteed to make my money back.
All it takes is ONE person who knows how to properly use a top tier anti tank weapon to take me out, or a few people using low tier weapons attacking at once.
Granted, if no one on the opposing side knows how to, or is unwilling to adapt to what I bring to the game, then yes, I will end up wrecking face and making my money back.
Imagine how it would feel to play a gimped character until you finally unlock the heaviest of tanks, then spend all your money on gearing one up, only to have it wrecked 2 mins into a game because your opponent knows what they are doing. Its frustrating. Such is the life of a tank pilot. Big risks for big reward. |
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