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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
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Posted - 2012.07.06 17:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
I had a similar problem to this. Someone had camped with a viper on top of the large square shelter by B, and was constantly shooting at B spawn. Now, I tried to take him out with swarms (along with someone else) but he just killed and killed.
Although may some defend this as a valid tactic, this makes the game no fun for the opposing team, and will lose CCP players. In the end, CCP wants a decent playerbase and for those players to have fun. If there are exploits that result in unfair and frustrating gameplay, they *need* to fix it.
Granted, this is only closed beta, but at least for final release I'd like to see spawn points more protected. Points which spring to mind are A, B and C spawn points. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
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Posted - 2012.07.06 17:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote: If they keep trying to spawn at a place where you can see (on the map lol) that explosions and **** is happening, then Darwin has some theories about what should happen to those players.
Perhaps, but on the other hand, there is supposed to be fair gameplay. Yes, perhaps I'm being a little naive, but games should always be balanced. If an AV trooper tries to take out a dropship with a few swarms, then the dropship just kills him (on top of shutting down a vital spawn point), it's highly unbalancing for the gameplay.
Edit: In light of the above post, it's not about one isolated incident (i.e. repairing a tank while it's taking damage) but a constant, reproducible effect. For example, if a spawn point was able to be shut down by one person, that makes it an essential tactic to have. Same with regards to the dropships on tall buildings.
In the end, those "tactics" are used time and time again. Another way of saying what I'm trying to say is that the disbanding of BoB was a highly situational thing. Yes, unfair, but HIGHLY situational. The equivalent of spawn camping in DUST would be a constant stream of asset appropriation by one alliance in EvE from another with no way of stopping it. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:No fair fights, except everyone has the chance to fight.
And there is the problem.
By camping a *vital* spawn point, which also granted him FOV over all of B, spawn of B, right up to the wall leading to A, he completely shut down B as a capture point. Now, that's not even a chance to fight. We wouldn't have had a chance of capping B back had one of their team had the presence of mind to cap.
That would have shut off a point for us completely, leaving us with two options instead of three. I *think* the defending team needs only two points for the game to win. If the defending team camped and defended C, which isn't too hard for them (considering three nearby spawn points, four counting C itself), there would be no chance for an attacker to win.
If someone gains the upper hand, then great, they deserve it. If someone can get to a spot where they are practically invincible (surviving at least four lots of swarm missiles!) whilst getting a lot of kills... That's highly unbalanced. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Although, if what I read somewhere was correct in that buildings will be randomly generated in slots, this problem will be lessened a lot. Unless the tall buildings stay the same for each game...
It's alright for now, but for release, CCP needs to keep an eye on this otherwise they'll risk losing part of the community. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 22:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
zekina zek wrote:look you little pansies. THIS IS WAR. there is no FAIR PLAy. you KILL OR GET KILLED.
if your too stupid to get a better strategy to get an advantage then you deserve to die.
if you dont get in a dropship and patrol those towers your going to get whipped on from the skys.
is the C-130 gunship noob too? because all that thing does is circle around the battlefield reigning hell.
in eve online there is GATE CAMPING- a legitimate strategy. Spawn point camping is the SAME EXACT THING but in first person. so freaking get a drop uplink and DEAL with it. stop coming on the forums and crying about me and other dropship pilots decimating your team.
valid tactics vs dropships. - Get in a tank. get in a heavy suit, get a forge gun, get a drop uplinks all over map, get your own dropship with gunners, get on comms and develop tactics to fight them instead of sitting here moaning and groaning about how CCP has made a great game and your too sucky to play it the way it needs to be played.
NO MERCY.
i will sit on you, even if i get 0 points from it because you know why? people on my team see im a good pilot and then they get in the gunner seat then its all over.
Erm, where to begin...
First off, you don't need to go through a warp gate that's camped. If you did, tough luck, but that was your choice. If they're camping spawn points, you don't really have a choice. It's spawn and die, or do nothing. Neither is really helpful for the team.
Second, don't compare DUST 514 to real life. For one, the military is *meant* to be more powerful than other nation's militaries - that's what ongoing military research is for. In DUST, everyone's given the chance at a level playing field. Also, CCP is a GAMES company, and the only way it'll make money from DUST is if there's an active community. If one side just destroys the other all the time by spawn camping, half the community will leave.
Case in point: I was in a game earlier (attacking) where we couldn't do anything for half the game because they had us at our final spawn point. We couldn't get dropships up, we couldn't get through their lines, etc, etc. Now, I'm not butthurt about that because we were truly woeful. However, if we had actually done something and capped A and B, then I would be butthurt, as although it may be a strategy to win the game, it completely takes the fun out of it for BOTH sides. What's the point in killing someone AS SOON as they spawn? I will compare it to aimbotting, as it's the same principle: IT GIVES NO ABILITY TO FIGHT BACK.
I wouldn't care if they didn't nerf it and instead put spawn points in hidden places e.g. bunkers, added a few more walls, etc. just as long as I can spawn and survive for more than 10 seconds since they've completely surrounded a spawn point.
Edit: Last point. If spawn camping were to occur, one team WILL just give up as there's nothing they can do. If they die as soon as they spawn, they can't get dropships, HAVs, LAVs, drop uplinks, etc, and they WILL sit around for ten minutes waiting for the match to end. That ends up with 24 players sitting doing nothing, and isn't a very good advertisement for the game in general.
CCP, honestly, think about putting spawn points into safe buildings or something. Dying within half a second of spawning gets very tedious, very quickly. Otherwise, a good game. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 00:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
zekina zek wrote:my job in the battle is to carry around my team and make sure we dominate all capture points, i sweep for drop uplinks, and when i have a gunner i do not crush people and i let him get the kills. it is much faster getting +25 over n over then the occasional +50 and risk of losing ship. my dropship is getting more and more costly and i am fitting it better. you need to get with the program and start devising strategy.
Yes, and my point is, that the newbies to the game will get very tired, very quickly, and eventually CCP will lose a lot of potential customers and you will lose a large playerbase to play against. Do you understand now?!
It's not about "oh, I'm bad at this therefore CCP must change" it's about what will the customers staying in the game long enough to actually pay CCP for aurum and allow CCP to have revenue. This is feedback, and if a newbie is told that he must adapt when he dies in half a second, then he'll feel like he's being neglected for the players who have played in the beta, and WILL leave. How do you not grasp this?
This is closed beta, for CCP to get feedback about bugs, gameplay issues, and general suggestions for an improved experience, not your personal playground to do what you want with no limitations. This is an UNFINISHED game and as such is subject to changes.
Still don't understand? Then get out of the closed beta. CCP needs to listen to the majority of beta testers in order to get a better idea of how the reception of the game at release will be, not the vocal minority who insist that the mechanics are fine just the way they are. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 07:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Trevak Shi wrote:Chao Wolf wrote:Not a glitch its some players learning to use their environment Listen. This is warfare on a video scale. What my Cadre in the Army used to always tell me was this; "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. And if you get caught, you ain't trying hard enough." Now before you get your panties in a twist, this same statement was coupled with a well know credo of he USMC: "Survive, adapt, overcome." Warfare has neve been fair. It is dirty, frustrating, and people die. In our case, just our clones. Don't get pissed off if some one has learned to use the sand box to their best advantage. If anything else this points out a potential weakness in the builds of he maps and maybe CCP will fix it. Have in the drop ship guns not work because there is no pilot is ridiculous. I have done the shooting from up there, an dI have been killed by those from up there. If you have a problem with it, get your toys out and fix it. If you don't want to fix it, get out of the sand box. Don't sit there and just cry and whine about it. THIS IS A BETA. It is not perfect yet. Hopefully soon. These people that are so willing to think outside of the box should be those same people that you would want in your corp. If you don't want them, I ma sure the corp I ma in would be more than happy to recruit as many as you want to "deny" because they are "dishonorable." Do yourself a favor and read Sun Tsu, Miyomoto Musashi, Yugeyo Munemori. They will all tell you the same thing. The war has already started and honor has left the building. Learn to be creative in your approach to a battlefield. I know every time I play it is my goal not to die once. Just as it was my goal when I was in the Army on deployment. So I say hurray to those that have based jumped out of the box like that. If you are interested, look up Seraphim Initiative at www.initiativegaming.org and come join a corp of like minded dodgers of death. Aplications are now being excepted.
You completely skipped over my post, didn't you? For the last time, stop comparing games to real life. Sun Tzu doesn't apply to a video game, which people play to have fun. Yes, war and life is unfair, but if you make a game inherently skewed to one side (in this case, the more experienced), newbies WILL stop playing. Honestly, how does no one see this? If newbies leave, then CCP lose customers, you lose players to play against, etc, etc.
Every game you see, ever, will try to be balanced. Let me quote a few famous MMOs which try to be balanced instead of telling their players to "adapt"; LoL, Dota, WoW, plus a lot of online shooters which have never, EVER told anyone to "adapt or die".
I really honestly cannot believe that I've had to repeat myself about that. How do people not get that videogames /= real life, and that for a game to thrive, it has to be fair...? |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 09:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Trevak Shi wrote: Listen, it is not the fact that this is a JUST a video game, and it is not real life. This game is attempting to evoke a more REALISTIC mentality and approach to gaming.
Have you ever played Eve? MF''s are ruthless and especially to noobs. Hence the reason you start off in high sec, but that isn't even a guarantee against getting podded. Those that are looking for this kind of experience will continue to play and develop a smaller and tighter knit community much like the parent that gave birth to it: Eve.
It seems that there have been a multitude of different people that have come up with ways of dealing with such problems. Some may ask why and how? Well it is because they pay attention to their surroundings. Next thing I will be hearing cries for is a kill cam. COME ON!
Again I bring in the RL comparison because it is the only one that seems appropriate enough to use. I didn't make the game, but I am sure as SH*T loving to play it. Even when I have those matches where I feel like i haven't made a dime, and only seem to keep getting my A*S handed to me.
There is nothing wrong with being naive in New Eden. It is just if you continue that mentality you will be filled with disappointment. Funny thing is, is that the disappointment stems from expectations and expectations stem from walking into situations assuming one thing and then another happens. And you know what my grandmother told me (I think I was about 7 or 8 when this happened) assumption is the mother of all F*ckups. Then should told me of the 7 P's of life.
Prior Proper Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance.
The sooner we all come to grips with the fact that this is not your daddy's horse we're riding here, but a whole other beast entirely, I think the happier and more engrossed group we will be.
Yes, I played EvE. No, I'm not being an entitled prat. And yes, you are being a ****.
This is NOT EvE. In EvE, you have a choice of picking your battles. Wardecced by a corp with much higher SP? Hire a merc corp, bribe them, fight them, whatever. In DUST, you have NO chance of picking your fights. If there's a sagaris on the field, chances are you WILL be killed by it, despite having a forge gun, AV grenades, etc, etc. I've seen someone go 30/0 with a sagaris, and that was with forge guns on the field.
The fact that you are comparing DUST to EvE shows that although it's the same games company, a lot of EvE fans (and I am one) don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that in a fast-paced FPS, you simply CANNOT have such a huge advantage. You can't choose whether or not you want to fight the sagaris - eventually, it's inevitable. That is why you NEED to have different divisions working on different genres. You cannot ask an FPS division to do an RPG or an RTS, or vice versa. CCP are VERY ambitious doing this game, and have a lot to lose.
And guess what - if CCP has the same mentality that you have, hardcore FPS fans won't come to this game, CCP will lose money on this game, and DUST will shut down within a year. That's the core issue, and that's why this is closed beta. If DUST shuts down, PI dies, cap ship prices rise, nullsec alliances will be more hesitant to use cap ships... blah. Need I go on? If DUST is ruined, EvE is ruined.
Just for the record, if you had read my posts before, you will see that I'm not entirely against dropships on top of towers... It's the spawn camping, along with the lack of draw distance, which does annoy me about it. Oh, and I'm not against sagaris's too, I have done damage to one and I know I can take one out, given the chance.
Seriously, people, read the whole thread.
EDIT: Just another point. People have wars in real life because they want something, e.g. resources, freedom, rights, whatever. You HAVE to fight in order for a better life, and you really have no other choice than to fight. In DUST, you're fighting for fun. You have a very real choice of a number of games, including (but not limited to) COD and BF3. If DUST neglects hardcore FPS fans and those trying out the game for the first time, by making it too much like EvE, they WILL go back to CoD and BF3. So yes, CCP has a real, vested interest in making this game fair rather than "adapt or die". |
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