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DeadlyAztec11
9801
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Posted - 2017.01.09 21:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Function before Form.
Give me a mechanic or purpose that needs to be fulfilled that would only make sense if that mechanic or purpose was being fulfilled by a mech/MTAC.
I'm not necessarily pro-mech, but I'll play the Devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion.
I imagine the mech to be a larger and more menacing vehicle which would do more things than an HAV. Not only would it have offensive capabilities, but it would be very mobile. It would be a moving spawn point and would have massive health. It would have the capability to have both anti air, anti personnel and anti ground vehicle. The real downside would be the massive cost and how large of a target it would be.
If you brought out a mech and thought it would win you the game then the enemy team could bring out HAV's, turrets and anti MANPADS suddenly your giant mech is disintegrating on the ground and the battle just hot a lot costlier.
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DeadlyAztec11
9802
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Posted - 2017.01.10 02:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Function before Form.
Give me a mechanic or purpose that needs to be fulfilled that would only make sense if that mechanic or purpose was being fulfilled by a mech/MTAC.
I'm not necessarily pro-mech, but I'll play the Devil's advocate for the sake of the discussion. I imagine the mech to be a larger and more menacing vehicle which would do more things than an HAV. Not only would it have offensive capabilities, but it would be very mobile. It would be a moving spawn point and would have massive health. It would have the capability to have both anti air, anti personnel and anti ground vehicle. The real downside would be the massive cost and how large of a target it would be. If you brought out a mech and thought it would win you the game then the enemy team could bring out HAV's, turrets and anti MANPADS suddenly your giant mech is disintegrating on the ground and the battle just hot a lot costlier. Balancing with ISK doesnt work. What you described was basically "It's does basically everything but that's OK because it's it's expensive" which is....Something I've heard before and it didn't end well for anyone. The conversation should never be "We want mechs, let's think of a role for them to fill". It should be the other way around "So the game design requires a role with these functions....What should that element of gameplay look like?"
I'll disagree with that point since a lot of weapons in Dust 514 were extremely redundant. For example, the regular rail rifle was superseded by the assault rail rifle in competitive play, then you had weapons like the burst Scrambler Pistol, sleek locus grenade and the Plasma Cannon. All were theoretically viable, but in practice they were all either redundant or so since specific nobody ever needed them ever. Myofibril stimulants were also pretty uneccessary until they were given the ability to increase jump height. Nova Knives were also redundant since technically their job was already fulfilled by the Breach Shotgun and the only thing that kept them relevant in the slightest was that there was never am advanced or prototype version of the Breach Shotgun.
I think the entire "practical" approach to equipment design is BS.
Anyways, the ISK thing would only be a secondary deterrent. The first and foremost deterrent would be that if the enemy team could knock out the mech with their counyerasures that continuously calling in mechs would be useless. At that point it would make much more sense to simply use smaller concentrations of forces to engage the enemy in multiple smaller engagements on the battlefield where it is more difficult for them to coordinate.
It's basically the reason we don't use zeppelins in war anymore. Having everyone shooting at one target kind of negates the purpose of it entirely. Only if the other team can successfully counter their countermeasures could the mech actually see a good use.
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DeadlyAztec11
9802
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Posted - 2017.01.10 02:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
MEGA MAN7 wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote: No... dropsuits are not mechs... no... just no
What are they then? I would categorize them as mechanized exoskeletons or mechanized armorsuits then.
Wikipedia article on Mecha wrote:While the distinction is often hazy, mecha typically does not refer to form-fitting powered armor such as Iron Man's suit. They are usually much larger than the wearer, like Iron Man's enemy the Iron Monger, and possess a cockpit from which they are operated.
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DeadlyAztec11
9806
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Posted - 2017.01.10 11:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:And who knows, I may be alone in this, but I need more than that. Things should exist more more than just "Oh I use thing A to kill thing B and that's it". And I guess i get frustrated when people are looking for excuses to put Titans in the game instead of focusing on the meaningful gameplay first, and then figuring out what gun/vehicle/equipment/lizard works best for that role.
If you came to me and said:
"Ok so we need to get inside this base, but we need something to hack the main reactor to blow it up. But the outer wall has a hardened wall that you have to get past first, but to do that you need to clear the enemy out of an elevated position so you can get close enough to break through the gate. But the road to the gate has obstructions that cant and be destroyed and hinder large ground objects"
and I would say "Ok, so how do you you think a team should pull all of that off? What tools would they use?"
and you replied "Well....the infantry cant approach right away because of the enemie stationed at the gate, and we can't just drive a tank up because the obstructions were in the way. What if you used an MTAC which is a vehicle that can walk over the obstructions and take out the infantry posted above the door. The MTAC and infantry dont have the firepower to take out the gate, but the infantry could then hack the console controlling the obstructions while the MTAC defends them from other infantry, which would allow the HAV to roll up within firing range of the gate. The infantry would need to also defend the MTAC from enemy HAVs while all of this is happening since the MTACs are weak to HAVs. Once the HAV breaks down the gate, the infantry can slip inside and hack another terminal to let their HAVs and MTACs in to cover them and each other while the infantry make the final push for the reactor core to hack and destroy it."
I would buy you a ******* drink, because that would be epic. And what's important there is that it doesnt REALLY matter what the tool is, just that it performs the function the scenario dictates. You could replace every instance of MTAC with "T-Rex's with Lasers mounted to their backs" and it would still work. It would look ridiculous/awesome, but it would still work. And that's the point Im trying to make with putting Function before Form.
Ultimately I agree with you, I don't want something to completely change the way the game is played without balancing the current mess since the current vehicle-installation-AV meta is completely out of wack. In my opinion things were best in open beta.
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DeadlyAztec11
9806
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Posted - 2017.01.10 11:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Wait, people still post here? lol, I guess the cancer never really lets go, huh?
Oh my Quafe! Godin returns! The merc with the voice is back in the star sector!
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DeadlyAztec11
9810
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Posted - 2017.01.15 03:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
jace silencerww wrote: you must not have went against an ADS with a good gunner. they could rule the whole battlefield. the only way to shut them down was 3-4 forge gunners but then a great ads gunner would jump out, kill the forge gunner and wait for the ADS to pick him back up. Hav were not as hard to kill as you think , use a plc, jump mods and proto av grenades could kill tanks fast and even faster using kubos plc.
That's ridiculous. Vehicles were only a force multiplier. The reason they were so impactful was because they were paired with equally good infantry. Just like how in real life vehicles without infantry support are taken out easily, it is the same within the game. And saying that you need an officer weapon to compete in AV is ludicrous.
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DeadlyAztec11
9811
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Posted - 2017.01.16 07:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Joel II X wrote: Infantry > Tanks
Haha, yeah. Okay.
I see what you're trying to do, though, and I like the idea, but it would need to be well thought out in order to work.
This is easy. I remember people talking about this during the open beta.
It's supposed to be Infantry>AV Infantry>Vehicles>Infantry. Basically rock paper scissors.
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