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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2936
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Posted - 2016.09.27 15:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:So, I've seen the whole Clinton / Trump debate this morning (it was late night/early morning ETZ I guess) and I had confirmations about what I was already thinking. I'm italian and I know I shouldn't really have any say on this topic since very similar movements and ideological "values" are very present in Italy and all over Europe, but, and please be brutally honest, what makes Trump so attractive? It's not a provocative question, I seriously want to know why Trump supporters are supporting him.
Most people support one of these candidates simply because they hate the other more. Both are garbage, so pick your poison.
I guess you could say Trump probably means a lot of what he says, which could be construed as sincerity in a way, rather than blabbering meaningless talking points to your voter base.
Democracy has failed.
This guy said it best, although we're all conditioned from birth to hate him and ignore everything he said... turns out he was right after all...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B0F-U1vw31k
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2937
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Posted - 2016.09.27 15:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Democracy is a hoax.
Were really ruled by the handful of elites with unlimited wealth while the people get poorer poorer and more divided and the endless wars rage on. Just like Orwell prophecised.
Edit: These puppets placed on the stage to debate each other mean nothing. Whoever wins, the debt will increase, the wars will continue, and it will be the same thing 4 years after this
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2939
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Posted - 2016.09.27 16:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Between 1933 - 1936 Germany unified their country, beat the depression, eliminated unemployment/poverty, developed world class infrastructure including the still famous Autobahns, passed animal rights laws, nearly eliminated tobacco from their country and went from starvation and ruin to the best economy in Europe. Contrary to what we're taught in school/History channel, this was before significant military buildup took place.
The real reason for the war, was the bankers who own America/Britain didn't want their people to realize they could live like that. Germany had to be destroyed in order to keep this sham of Western democracy going.
That's why they maneuvered Germany into war with Poland over Danzig, and then ignored the USSR when they also invaded Poland shortly after.
Hitlers peace offers to England and France after the Poland ordeal? Completely neglected by historians.
The anti-german propaganda has been going strong ever since, so that no one would dare question how we got here today.
History is a sham.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2939
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Posted - 2016.09.27 16:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:Between 1933 - 1936 Germany unified their country, beat the depression, eliminated unemployment/poverty, developed world class infrastructure including the still famous Autobahns, passed animal rights laws, nearly eliminated tobacco from their country and went from starvation and ruin to the best economy in Europe. Contrary to what we're taught in school/History channel, this was before significant military buildup took place.
The real reason for the war, was the bankers who own America/Britain didn't want their people to realize they could live like that. Germany had to be destroyed in order to keep this sham of Western democracy going.
That's why they maneuvered Germany into war with Poland over Danzig, and then ignored the USSR when they also invaded Poland shortly after.
Hitlers peace offers to England and France after the Poland ordeal? Completely neglected by historians.
The anti-german propaganda has been going strong ever since, so that no one would dare question how we got here today.
History is a sham.
They also kicked out their Rothschild owned central bank from the Weimar days, and created the Reichsbank, which allowed them to issue their own debt free currency, which is exactly how they elicited their debt.
So don't tell me a country can't function without perpetually skyrocketing debt. That's beyond ridiculous.
Other leaders who have tried to eliminate the private central banks?
- Gadaffi - S. ******* - Assad - Ahmedinejad - Jong un.
Anything in common with these people?
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2939
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Posted - 2016.09.27 16:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Why did ****** rise to power?
Had the DNC not **** all over Bernie this would already be over, and if third party candidates weren't systematically silenced then at the very least there might be more to discuss.
I hate my country more and more with each passing day. A. H. rose to power by blaming everything to the Juwes and the "inferior races", absolutely true. When I first saw Bernie Sanders I thought he was going to win by a long shot against Clinton and then eventually win the presidential elections. But I guess this is not what "people" wanted.
At least that's what the History Channel tells people to believe
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2939
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Posted - 2016.09.27 17:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Between 1933 - 1936 Germany unified their country, beat the depression, eliminated unemployment/poverty, developed world class infrastructure including the still famous Autobahns, passed animal rights laws, nearly eliminated tobacco from their country and went from starvation and ruin to the best economy in Europe. Contrary to what we're taught in school/History channel, this was before significant military buildup took place.
The real reason for the war, was the bankers who own America/Britain didn't want their people to realize they could live like that. Germany had to be destroyed in order to keep this sham of Western democracy going.
Hitlers peace offers to England and France after the Poland ordeal? Completely neglected by historians.
The anti-german propaganda has been going strong ever since, so that no one would dare question how we got here today.
History is a sham. While this is accurate... Same goes for Italy. You might not notice it if you ever visit Italy, but most of the infrastructures, the modern justice and the highest growth rate was exactly during the fascist period. It would also be interesting that the fascist Italy was all pro-immigrants from everywhere in the world. Black-italians, asian-italians back then didn't exist. They were just italians since they accepted to "be" italian. This is, of course, due to a strong leader (read dictator) being in charge of pretty much anything, but still the ethical point with Germany here is very different. A.D. pushed policies against a certain "race" first and then pretty much against "all other races", and that's "probably" what is very wrong among with pangermanistic views. Talos Vagheitan wrote:That's why they maneuvered Germany into war with Poland over Danzig ...this is not. If you read the Mein Kampf he clearly stated that the German people "needed the vital space" See, Germany's example is not the best, anyway. German people are absolutely capable to stand up on their feets and recover astonishingly after every defeat: think about WWII. They lost, Germany was basically a giant ruin, but still recovered that much that right now it is the leading country in Europe.
I own Mein Kampf and have read it carefully so don't lecture me on that book.
There are a few sentences used in an abstract sense where the word 'Lebensraum' Is used... mostly discussing the historical needs for nations to conquer each other in the past.
however there is absolutely no mention in the book which says "Germany needs Lebensraum and must therefore conquer the world and exterminate everybody " As the history channel/schools choose to interpret it.
Furthermore, A.H. Was clearly every step of the way in his intentions in the beginning. He wanted Danzig back, and Danzig wanted to rejoin Germany. Polish officials instigated the Bromberg Massacre in Danzig (sure you've never heard of it) where ethnic Germans were hunted down. A.H. Had no choice but to intervene.
Britain and Frances war declarations followed suit, but what's 'hushed' by most historians is that USSR also invaded Poland, with no response by the allies.
If A.H's aims were so simple and cartoonish as "take over the world and kill everyone", then why was switzerland left alone? Spain? Sweden?
If he was so racist why ally with Japan? Why speak so highly of the Arabs? Why give the black American athletes the best treatment of their lives in 1936 Olympics? (Jesse Owens own words).
I'll tell you why. Because almost all history on this subject is twisted to the point where you'll believe this is a world in which the "Good guys" won
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Talos Vagheitan
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Posted - 2016.09.28 03:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MCNHaLziBQw
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2944
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Posted - 2016.09.28 15:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:
Anyway, I can't tell about the American education system, but here at least we have a clear vision of what and why. Germany surely didn't want to take over the world back then and the "good guys" didn't won, but they didn't loose either. It's not totally black nor totally white.
I'm aware the story is never truly "black and white", however that's more or less exactly how it's incorrectly taught. The common narrative today is this - US: Freedom loving good guys who saved the world. THEM: Evil satanic monsters who wanted to ruin the world. That's basically the message the History Channel tries to deliver. Propaganda. Winners write the history.
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As I remarked in a earlier post, it's totally right to search for the truth, but shaping the truth to achieve a goal or to justify behaviors is a different story. You may have noticed it, the happenings you are reporting really happened, and we both agree on that. On the other side, I may very well ask you, as you did, why did he invade Austria then? Why did "his future best friend" Mussolini deployed the Stresa front against Germany if Germany wasn't really going to attack Italy after Austria?
I'm not trying to achieve any goal. I believed the version of history we're all taught in school until I started researching it from a neutral standpoint. I wanted to hear the other side of the story and compare. The deeper I looked into it the more lies and exaggerations and omissions I discovered.
In no sense of the word did Germany "invade" Austria. Nor did they "Annex" Austria which is also a popular term. The pressure for unification was strong in Germany and Austria amongst the people. A referendum was conducted in both countries and the support for unification was nearly unanimous. Even post-war historians don't dispute this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_Anschluss_referendum,_1938
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The rest is, as always, political and strategic interests. There's a certain "something" in the middle east and looks like the whole world wants it! Spain had a fascist leader and an Ally. Why would he invade Spain if he already indirectly controlled it and, moreover, if he directly contributed to Franco's rise to power? Same goes with Japan, it's strategical thinking. You'd prefer to fight USSR and China on two fronts with an ally. And still this doesn't mean that he didn't consider them "inferiors". Again, I know A.H. considered the whole mediterranean population "inferior" since it was already a mixture of nordic/southern races, especially in Italy, Spain and Greece.
Look up Gibraltar. Gibraltar was a British naval stronghold on the southern tip of spain. This gave Britain a tremendous advantage over Italy in the Mediterranean. Seizing this base would have been a major factor for the North African campaign and given a huge advantage to Italy and Germany. Germany put a lot of pressure on Spain to either join the Axis, or at least allow the Wehrmacht to march across spain in order to seize this base. Spain however, declared their neutrality, and Germany chose to honor their neutrality. So telling me that there was no strategic advantage with Spain is completely false.
Japan was Allied with Germany before the outbreak of the war. Simply saying "He allied for strategic reasons and still thought they were inferior" comes off as a guess to me and seems like your reaching to fit this into the common narrative.
I can also tell you that in Mein Kampf, A.H. actually specifically states in one paragraph that he has a lot of admiration for the Chinese and Japanese cultures, and does NOT view them as inferior. If you really want I could dig up the exact quote/page from the English version of the book, and then verify it with the German version.
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One might say that historic revisions are just for truth's sake and that's fair enough. Everyone loves (or at least should love) truth. Still this doesn't mean that you should justify what A.H. did to whoever didn't have the same opinion nor justifying the plain racism he enforced later. And I just don't want to talk about Na.zis Lagers. If you're going to doubt their existence I can tell you, as an italian, that at least there was one in Stolberg since my Granfather have been imprisoned there just for being member of the Italian Army after the armistice. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure concentration camps really existed.
A lot of history needs revising. You're taught a version of history bu the same people who told you Iraq had WMD's, that Vietnam attacked America in the Gulf of Tonkin, that covered up the USS Liberty incident, and have basically been lying their way into wars for our entire lives.
The amount of lies I've discovered regarding WW2 is staggering.
Just regarding the concentration camps... Of course every country has war-time prison camps.
Some things you probably didn't know however: Britain invented the modern concentration camp in the Boer Wars. These concentration camps however were filled with the wives and children of the Boer soldiers. They starved the families of the soldiers to death in order to break the spirits of the men, which worked.
Do you regard that differently because it was Britain who did it? Or do you hold Germany and Britain to the same standards?...
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2944
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Posted - 2016.09.28 18:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'll skip the endless reasons why, and summarize my overall points.
- We are taught an inaccurate and one sided version of History
- A.H. Did his best to avoid the war, including offering peace to England after conquering France.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2944
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Posted - 2016.09.28 19:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote: - A.H. Did his best to avoid the war, including offering peace to England after conquering France.
This is the only point up for debate for me, since the other one I'm pretty confident anyone would agree. The peace offer was a really shady peace offer. I might repeat myself, interpretation is key here. I say it was just because he wanted to keep Britain "calm" because he cannot fight a three fronts war alone (since Italy already warned him that in case of any war italians wouldn't have been able to assist until at least 1945).
This was H's response to France and Britain's declaration of War on Germany.
Audio transcript of A.H. speaking very specifically about why any there should not be a war. He specifically details Germany's views and relations with every single country on Germany's borders, lists concessions Germany has made to avoid war, and further concessions he is willing to make to keep the peace.
When France and England reject the offer and commit to war, H offers this response.
After the fall of france, H offers this final appear to England, as a last attempt to finally stop the war. Note that he also mentions that the Luftwaffe was specifically ordered not to attack civilian targets or cities in the Poland and France campaigns. It is only when England decides to target German cities, that Germany reciprocates.
Not to put words in your mouth, but if you listen to these speeches, I suspect your rebuttal might be along the lines of "he was just lying"...
Well if that's what you think, please tell me what possible reason he would have to lie, in such specific detail about wanting peace, at a time when you are winning, and look all but unstoppable in Europe?
What possible advantage would that offer?
If you're curious, here is also the explanation of why it was necesssary to go to war with America.
And soviet union.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
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Posted - 2016.09.28 21:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Yes. Clearly they weren't unstoppable, although in 1940 they certainly appeared so.
My only point is I believe their only foreign ambition was to reverse the versailles treaty, get back German territory stripped away from WW1, such as Danzig (which I might add, there were numerous peaceful offers made by Germany before the bromberg massacre to gain this land back peacefully) .
They even offered to allow Danzig to pass it's own referendum on whether they wanted to Join Poland, Germany, or remain a "free city"...
After Danzig was regained, Germany was completely satisfied and wanted nothing more than to buildup their own country in peace. That's why the numerous appeals to France and Britain to call the whole thing off
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
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Posted - 2016.09.29 00:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:LOL KILLZ wrote:IMO I don't understand why we don't include other party candidates into the conversation. The generations that came before us almost feel obligated to abide by the status quo.
You know, I always wondered why does the USA have only two major parties. What if you disagree with both?
You should disagree with both.
They're both equally flawed and designed to keep your population in perpetual stalemate. Both parties fail an making any real progress, yet they always have the excuse of blaming the 'other party'...
It's a sick joke and leads me back to my original point: Democracy is a sham
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
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Posted - 2016.09.29 00:59:00 -
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xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Forever ETC wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:LOL KILLZ wrote:IMO I don't understand why we don't include other party candidates into the conversation. The generations that came before us almost feel obligated to abide by the status quo.
You know, I always wondered why does the USA have only two major parties. What if you disagree with both? Mainly due to how the system works and the fact it has been this way for hundreds of years, for example the federalist and the anti-federalist. But isn't it too restrictive? Only one man/woman can be president and, considering the importance, the choice shouldn't be the lesser evil, especially in a presidential republic. But, yeah.. "who am I to judge" I guess.
Hear me out http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B0F-U1vw31k
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