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Posted - 2016.09.14 16:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:
*snip*
To that end, I feel New Eden is best defined by its sense of Consequences.
*snip*
hrm...
I used to think this very thing, and I loved EvE for it. Even if I drifted back and forth with subs, I always bragged about EvE-Online with my friends and it's death penalty. I loved that when you made a choice, you were stuck with it for good or bad. I loved training skills for equipment and efficiencies. If I decided to change tracks halfway in, well, then I just lost those skill points until I found a new need for them at some point. Earning skills, weaponry, ships, etc., was a sense of pride for me because I earned it. When I lost that equipment whether in PVE or PVP, it was an emotional loss because of the time spent earning it. I couldn't just run back to my body as a ghost and reclaim it all with just a repair penalty.
That feeling has begun to die for me. A month or so back I spent money on PLEX and bought a few skill injectors. I was excited by the idea of finally capping one of my drone skills instead of waiting the remaining month or so. After it was done, I looked over my training history and had a strange sensation. I felt like a who-oar.
All sense of earned pride and bragging rights for this or that suddenly vanished in the realization that nothing meant anything from that point forward. Drop some cash and here's a billion ISK. Not from a grind. Not from a calculated market long run. And not from a string of lucky encounters. Drop some more cash and you can instantly boost skill points. Meh. It was all just a single click away and it fulfilled nothing for me like losing my old Domi did years ago.
I suppose consequences are still very much a part of whatever EvE has become.
sigh.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Posted - 2016.09.14 19:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's a bit more than "leveling". For more than one player, choice and the consequences of that choice are important. EvE was a life sim of sorts. It was a place to login to avoid games where you could pay 10g for a spec reset and boom: everything starts over fresh making any choice up to that point ...pointless.
In EvE, I had to frigate to cruiser to battleship, etc., hopefully learning the pros and cons of each along the way. If I made a mistake in my skill path, then I had to learn how to make use of what I had until I corrected my path. On the plus side, I never lost the ability to redirect my skills at any point along the way. I was never bound to one role or another. It was all forward and compounding gain that I couldn't find anywhere else. For me, that was unique.
It's actually less about progression and more about decision-making and commitment. Also, I am not saying that is the end-all be-all of my attraction to EvE; however, it is something that made it stand out for me. Injectors water that aspect down considerably.
My post was in reply to OP, and that's my humble opinion. That does not negate whatever other or additional enjoyment players may get out of it. Just mine, due to the principles that shape my opinions.
*EDIT*
Also: life is leveling. EvE felt more realistic as a result. For me, at least.
YMMV.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Posted - 2016.09.15 15:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
To draw a line, I do not believe it's P2W. For me at least, that's not the issue. As you said: without the skill and knowledge gained from experience in playing the game, those skipping in line will be destroyed.
That right there is at the heart of my point. I've gained experience through the grind, or "leveling" as you put it. That experience carries with it a sense of pride and history. EvE has history. It's persistent. That spirit has always been what attracted me.
Training skills does not prevent me from enjoying the game. It just opens doors to new or more efficient ways of enjoyment; however, the knowledge comes through the wait. The wait also creates anticipation. When it's over, it's a genuine sense of accomplishment that will stay with me throughout my EvE game---and all the in-game experience that has accumulated as a result. Not anymore.
That is why EvE no longer has the attraction for me that it once did. It's not up to you to argue that my principles are wrong. It's absolutely irrelevant that you don't understand. If you enjoy things as they are, then by all means enjoy it. I am not going to rock the boat. I'll just eventually stop playing if other elements of the game can't pick up the slack for me.
I'm pretty sure I've drifted far off topic. Sorry OP!
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Posted - 2016.09.15 15:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fair enough ;)
Then my apologies for misreading and for my reaction under that assumption.
=^.^=
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Posted - 2016.09.15 15:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:byte modal wrote:
I'm pretty sure I've drifted far off topic. Sorry OP!
Not at all! What is -not- the feeling of New Eden is just as important as the feeling of the game. You wrote an amazing paragraph on the parts of New Eden that make / made EVE an important experience to you, and I very much enjoyed reading it.
Awe, shucks...
*curtsies*
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Posted - 2016.09.15 18:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Heh, yeah =\
Still sometimes amazes me what all was overlooked regarding bugs and cheat access.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Posted - 2016.09.17 01:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm not really sure there was a difference. DUST514 came preloaded with associations to EvE just by coming from CCP. We tend to project ourselves onto things to fill in the blanks when there are blanks to fill. Like how we treat our pets as though they are emotionally complex enough to feel what we feel. They're not, but we fill in the gaps with our own emotional assumptions and empathy. Did some of us do this with DUST? The game sure had enough holes for us ;)
No idea really. Just bumping the thread. And trying to better stay on point this time.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Posted - 2016.09.17 13:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Speaking to loadouts and pride in ownership, acquiring and learning skills needed to use specific equipment give a sense of investment on property. It reinforces our notions of ownership and primes us to feel a need to protect our property (protecting our equipment through survival). That has always been another attraction of mine with EvE---the risk of loss through a severe death penalty. In the case of DUST, that was a great sense of immersion too; though it did have flaws IMHO.
BPOs (as used in DUST) directly contradicted that notion of investment and risk. What risk is there with an infinite stock of equipment? I am not going to derail with an argument of balance or other subtleties involved as to why this was a benefit to some or not; I'm just speaking on a philosophical view of an element that countered what, in my view, is, in part the spirit of EvE and what was potentially the spirit of DUST.
Bleh. On my phone and it's too early for this! I'll come back to finish my thoughts on skill progression.
Mornin =/
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Posted - 2016.09.22 00:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
For me, it's partly the principle of the matter. 1. It's counter to EvE estsblished culture. 2. It's a fundamental mistake that risks more problems in later development, especially if a merger with EvE markets had been established. 3. It creates a sense of short-term gain without risk---regardless of how small that perceived gain is. 4. It sets a precedent in the EvE universe of relatively immediate gratification changing the objective philosophy from time in, investment out and risk/ reward to short-sighted development trend chasing catering to a developing sense of right-now entitlement.
You may disagree and that's fine; however, there are reasons for my believes. None of which are BS. If i argued just for the sake of being a contrarian, then you would be correct to call it for what that would be. That's not the case. At least for me.
Thumb-typing in a Publix parking lot. For this. Sigh. I am depressed now lol.
<3
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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