Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
575
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Posted - 2016.09.15 20:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:byte modal wrote:It's a bit more than "leveling". For more than one player, choice and the consequences of that choice are important. EvE was a life sim of sorts. It was a place to login to avoid games where you could pay 10g for a spec reset and boom: everything starts over fresh making any choice up to that point ...pointless.
In EvE, I had to frigate to cruiser to battleship, etc., hopefully learning the pros and cons of each along the way. If I made a mistake in my skill path, then I had to learn how to make use of what I had until I corrected my path. On the plus side, I never lost the ability to redirect my skills at any point along the way. I was never bound to one role or another. It was all forward and compounding gain that I couldn't find anywhere else. For me, that was unique.
It's actually less about progression and more about decision-making and commitment. Also, I am not saying that is the end-all be-all of my attraction to EvE; however, it is something that made it stand out for me. Injectors water that aspect down considerably.
My post was in reply to OP, and that's my humble opinion. That does not negate whatever other or additional enjoyment players may get out of it. Just mine, due to the principles that shape my opinions.
*EDIT*
Also: life is leveling. EvE felt more realistic as a result. For me, at least.
YMMV. The problem with EvE is that it is slowly being turned into just another game that you can pay to get whatever you want. There's no requirement anymore to go through the whole skill training thing that made the experience of training worthwhile. This is one of the things that so many of the long liners are complaining about - they trained for years and years to get where they are and now suddenly, people can just buy the skills they need for ISK, which itself is easy enough to get from selling PLEXes. PLEXing used to be a very maligned practice. Now it's practically the primary way to do anything fast in the game, and since for most people they just want things fast, the logic follows that PLEXing is becoming a primary source of in game money. No wonder the long liners complain so vehemently. Seriously? With all the popular stories of people "buying win" and then getting facerolled by ships nowhere near their cost people STILL won't drop the pay-to-win ****? You can't buy win in EVE Online. I've seen dozens of people in my 8 years in EVE playing on characters with crazy SP counts that they bought off the character bazaar. They've all been childishly easy to take down. In the most infamous story of them all, a lawyer dumped $3300 dollars on PLEX and only got a humiliating lossmail and yet another Goonswarm scam story for his trouble. Even in non-combat professions you're just going to get creamed by people with experience. If you don't have years of practice to draw from you are going to be easy fodder for people who do whether in PvP, marketing, industry, or even exploration. There's just no contest. EVE is not a level-based MMO. Your SP and ISO have no bearing on how good you are at managing your ship and making informed decisions.
I like when someone is defending 'this game is not p2w game', there is so much spirit in it.
So, you saying that if someone is able to buy 50-75kk SP character, or one with all SP and then train on it for 6-8 months without worrying that he gone run out of ISK(ever) is somehow at worst position, then someone that was training his character from being and many times struggled to get ISK for basic fittings?
Let's be honest. You do not know about peoples that were successful with they $ investment in to the game if they did not fail at some point, and became "a lawyer dumped $3300 dollars on PLEX and only got a humiliating lossmail" kind of story. There is a saying which has a lot of truth I think "the rich people do not like the company", meaning that if someone is successful at what he is doing, he will not betray tactics of it, or talk about it openly, otherwise he will have competition.
Side story: Once my old corporation meet some oligarch from Moscow in one of Esoteria systems; he was renting it from C0ven. The thing is that one guy being able to renting entire system just for himself was already impressive. So what he was doing with it was even more impressive, unimaginably impressive - the guy was producing titans - he had something like 5 of them at the stock. He was managing entire corporation of alts by himself, to fly titans, to do research, component production, everything except mining. But he gave this job to some Romanian locals that were even delivering them to him(nice guys). Once asked why is he doing all of it, I think he responded that he likes the game, and building titans is cool, or some sort of this.
The moral of this one is that guy living at the corner of galaxy, a life we all know from producing frigs at early stages of our days in Eve, but doing stuff that everyone wish to do at they end-game had some pleasant time playing Eve. Did he spend some $ on his dream, yes he did, so can we say that at some point he pay to win Eve?
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
577
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Posted - 2016.09.18 15:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Avallo Kantor wrote:Trying a bit to redirect the conversation back to it's original point, I'd like to argue the merits of why getting the feel of New Eden is so important, and why it's a thing that players can help out with. It is important that mechanics help bring the feel and theme of a game to life, instead of the two being created at separate points. (Often with mechanics before theme)
This can cause imbalances or inconsistencies in the narrative / feel of the game which generally detract from the fun and immersion of the game.
NOVA has the clear advantage of having two games worth of prior experience to establish the mood, feel, and themes that such a game should adhere to, as well as certain mechanics that help to enhance that theme. It is important then to distill those themes down as much as possible, preferably to a small list of bullet points (like what Rattati did) to keep in mind.
Then from those concepts and themes, mechanics can then be developed that tie into those themes. For example, if a theme is to feel a sense of "SELF" where things you own are important to you then mechanics that make you feel less ownership over things would harm that notion. As a minor example free vehicles spawning on a map would harm this as it does not grant a sense of ownership over things.
To continue on my line of questioning, let's look at a comparison. DUST and STAR WARS BATTLEFRONT both have "load out" systems. Here defining a "load out" system, as some mechanical system that allows you a difference in kind of gear and tools at your disposal that differentiates one load out from another in feel and mechanics. However, DUST managed to make fits feel unique or special to the point that some players considered a fit to be "theirs". Meanwhile, Battlefront did not grant this same sense of ownership despite also having the same mechanical system in place.
What was the difference that made one feel like New Eden, and the other... not? Exactly, these pillars should guide our development.
This is PR posts (I can smell it).
Guys you are like made for each other. Avallo, who makes post like those I read in the mid-2012(very classic), and CCP Rattati who restores faith in the CCP by ensuring the reader that 'every post on forum counts'. It's a compliment: you are like old sailors to me.
(To add further, Ripley Riley inviting Avallo to Discord-golf-club is like Master of the second plan here ).
It is hard for me to stick to the topic because it is like huge D+¬j+á vu to me. It remains me begins of Dust in times of the first sketches of how game should look like, how races should work, how equipment should look. Everyone who would try to listen to the narrator of this movie with closed eyes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_LlH2c5dyA will come to conclusus that old game and new game have same thing in common. They both had or will have feelings of eternal, overwhelming cold, they both are at same point epic, very real, with continual war going on etc. and old product at the launch had more goodies. I'm not trying to mimic anyone here or be malicious but honest instead.
CCP Rattati it is just a suggestion, selling better product with same marketing will not work. Especially for people who remember how it drown them to play Dust, and after few matches they realize there is tons of bugs stuff that do not work, blind spots in skill tree and whole marketing is illusion. Those people buildup some negative opinion around CCP in general, and in order to get them back I think it would be wise to focus on technical differences between two games(so it's gently bombards previous development team).
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