Marston VC
SVER True Blood
RUST415
1909
   |
Posted - 2016.09.16 08:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:byte modal wrote:It's a bit more than "leveling". For more than one player, choice and the consequences of that choice are important. EvE was a life sim of sorts. It was a place to login to avoid games where you could pay 10g for a spec reset and boom: everything starts over fresh making any choice up to that point ...pointless.
In EvE, I had to frigate to cruiser to battleship, etc., hopefully learning the pros and cons of each along the way. If I made a mistake in my skill path, then I had to learn how to make use of what I had until I corrected my path. On the plus side, I never lost the ability to redirect my skills at any point along the way. I was never bound to one role or another. It was all forward and compounding gain that I couldn't find anywhere else. For me, that was unique.
It's actually less about progression and more about decision-making and commitment. Also, I am not saying that is the end-all be-all of my attraction to EvE; however, it is something that made it stand out for me. Injectors water that aspect down considerably.
My post was in reply to OP, and that's my humble opinion. That does not negate whatever other or additional enjoyment players may get out of it. Just mine, due to the principles that shape my opinions.
*EDIT*
Also: life is leveling. EvE felt more realistic as a result. For me, at least.
YMMV. The problem with EvE is that it is slowly being turned into just another game that you can pay to get whatever you want. There's no requirement anymore to go through the whole skill training thing that made the experience of training worthwhile. This is one of the things that so many of the long liners are complaining about - they trained for years and years to get where they are and now suddenly, people can just buy the skills they need for ISK, which itself is easy enough to get from selling PLEXes. PLEXing used to be a very maligned practice. Now it's practically the primary way to do anything fast in the game, and since for most people they just want things fast, the logic follows that PLEXing is becoming a primary source of in game money. No wonder the long liners complain so vehemently.
You do realize there has always been a character bizzar where people could buy fully skilled characters right? The only thing skill injectors changed was that now ccp has another way to make more money. And I'm all for that! Ccp needs to stay in business for us to play their game.
ALSO, skill injectors have a steep decline in effectiveness the more skill points a character has. So basically, skill injectors are a way for more affluent people who might have wanted to play the game but didn't want to wait 6 months to do something cool to just skip the bs newbie grind and hop right into the game.
Buying skill points DOES NOT make you a good pilot. The feature in the game will serve only to boost player numbers. The same can be said with the new free trial account system. Now there will be a great number of new players who might be willing to give the game a shot since they don't have to worry about paying.
The game in my opinion is heading in a great direction. Yes there needs to be some improvements. But I can easily see things in a positive light moving forward.
Marston VC, STB Director
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Marston VC
SVER True Blood
RUST415
1909
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 08:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:byte modal wrote:It's a bit more than "leveling". For more than one player, choice and the consequences of that choice are important. EvE was a life sim of sorts. It was a place to login to avoid games where you could pay 10g for a spec reset and boom: everything starts over fresh making any choice up to that point ...pointless.
In EvE, I had to frigate to cruiser to battleship, etc., hopefully learning the pros and cons of each along the way. If I made a mistake in my skill path, then I had to learn how to make use of what I had until I corrected my path. On the plus side, I never lost the ability to redirect my skills at any point along the way. I was never bound to one role or another. It was all forward and compounding gain that I couldn't find anywhere else. For me, that was unique.
It's actually less about progression and more about decision-making and commitment. Also, I am not saying that is the end-all be-all of my attraction to EvE; however, it is something that made it stand out for me. Injectors water that aspect down considerably.
My post was in reply to OP, and that's my humble opinion. That does not negate whatever other or additional enjoyment players may get out of it. Just mine, due to the principles that shape my opinions.
*EDIT*
Also: life is leveling. EvE felt more realistic as a result. For me, at least.
YMMV. The problem with EvE is that it is slowly being turned into just another game that you can pay to get whatever you want. There's no requirement anymore to go through the whole skill training thing that made the experience of training worthwhile. This is one of the things that so many of the long liners are complaining about - they trained for years and years to get where they are and now suddenly, people can just buy the skills they need for ISK, which itself is easy enough to get from selling PLEXes. PLEXing used to be a very maligned practice. Now it's practically the primary way to do anything fast in the game, and since for most people they just want things fast, the logic follows that PLEXing is becoming a primary source of in game money. No wonder the long liners complain so vehemently. Seriously? With all the popular stories of people "buying win" and then getting facerolled by ships nowhere near their cost people STILL won't drop the pay-to-win ****? You can't buy win in EVE Online. I've seen dozens of people in my 8 years in EVE playing on characters with crazy SP counts that they bought off the character bazaar. They've all been childishly easy to take down. In the most infamous story of them all, a lawyer dumped $3300 dollars on PLEX and only got a humiliating lossmail and yet another Goonswarm scam story for his trouble. Even in non-combat professions you're just going to get creamed by people with experience. If you don't have years of practice to draw from you are going to be easy fodder for people who do whether in PvP, marketing, industry, or even exploration. There's just no contest. EVE is not a level-based MMO. Your SP and ISO have no bearing on how good you are at managing your ship and making informed decisions. I never said you can "buy win" in EvE. I said that people are paying to win. That doesn't mean they actually win by it, but the effect is still pretty profound. When people can just buy skill injectors full of the skills you spend years training, you will feel pretty cheesed off, too. Yes, those same people then have to learn to use those skills, which is a whole other problem, but the fact they paid to get them fast tracked is what the long-liners have a problem with. And these days, I myself am actually becoming a bit of a long liner. To me, paying for skill injectors to get to the level of my EvE main is tantamount to someone selling their EvE account, something which is supposed to be illegal according to the terms of agreement. The fact that CCP have effectively given people the means by which they can do exactly the same thing, but wait, now they have to pay CCP the real dollars to do it, means this is just another CCP cash cow.
So where did you forget to factor in the eve character bizzar and how for a very long time now people have always been able to buy fully skilled characters?
Marston VC, STB Director
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Marston VC
SVER True Blood
RUST415
1909
|
Posted - 2016.09.16 08:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:
You really think he's competing with full-time industrial moguls? Yeah, he's doing what he loves with real money, but he's hardly dominating the economy or anything.
I've bought multiple Game Time Codes in the past and used them to set up ships that probably got me more than one kill against people who earned all the ISK for their fittings in-game. However in more of those cases I've lost those ships to people with more experience than me.
What I'm saying is the issue isn't as black-and-white as many people argue it is.
I'll make my case again - it's not whether he's winning or not - it's the fact that he's fast-tracking something others have taken years to get to. It's definitely P2W, even if the person paying isn't necessarily winning. The long-liners do not like that.
Who are you to speak for all "long liners"? Lol
I've spoken to many people about skill injectors. Many of them who have been playing since close to the beginning. Most of the responses I get are that of "I don't really think it's a big deal" and "will just have to wait and see"
Ccp spent a good portion of a year hammering out details with the CSM as to how these injectors would be implemented and what stipulations would be required to prevent them from unbalancing the game. Hence the diminishing return you get as your total SP count goes up.
Also your completely forgetting that players can spend isk on these injectors to. So it's not exclusive to people who spend money on the game. I run incursions with eve uni on one of my accounts and injectors have really helped a lot of struggling newer players. What used to take two-three months for our new guys to train takes like 1 month now because as they earn money picketing/scouting for us they buy sp injectors so that they can hop into a battleship faster and really get their eve career started.
And AGAIN let's not forgetting the eve character bizzar that's been around for forever. People have been buying fully skilled characters through that for years now and the game has been doing fine.
Marston VC, STB Director
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