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Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
535
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Posted - 2016.09.07 16:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since there's nothing much else worth talking about, I raise the question in the subject: What if DUST had been built fully integrated with EVE from the start? Feel free to draw your own speculations of how the game would have been better or worse even if you've never played EVE. I have my own speculations as I have also played EVE but I'll wait for some replies. If you think about it, this topic should be of special interest as Project Nova (if ever sees release) like DUST is being built totally separate from EVE but supposed to be within the EVE universe where might later be linked (although extremely doubtful).
I cannot be bought, but I can be leased.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8499
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Posted - 2016.09.07 16:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
To what extent do you mean "fully integrated"? That's actually a pretty broad statement. What specific features would you consider part of that "full integration"?
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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Mobius Wyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8364
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Posted - 2016.09.07 16:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:To what extent do you mean "fully integrated"? That's actually a pretty broad statement. What specific features would you consider part of that "full integration"? Yeah, that's kind of essential information to start the discussion.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
8499
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Posted - 2016.09.07 16:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:To what extent do you mean "fully integrated"? That's actually a pretty broad statement. What specific features would you consider part of that "full integration"? Yeah, that's kind of essential information to start the discussion.
Because say we include free transfer if ISK between DUST and EVE without some sort of conversion ratio, it would instantly make ISK rewards from DUST effectively meaningless, which I can't say would be an improvement.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
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Mobius Wyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
8365
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Posted - 2016.09.07 16:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:To what extent do you mean "fully integrated"? That's actually a pretty broad statement. What specific features would you consider part of that "full integration"? Yeah, that's kind of essential information to start the discussion. Because say we include free transfer if ISK between DUST and EVE without some sort of conversion ratio, it would instantly make ISK rewards from DUST effectively meaningless, which I can't say would be an improvement. I think using ISK as that much of a gating mechanism already wasn't the best idea. If you look at EVE Online you can easily bank up ISK even as a new player but you still need to accumulate SP to access assets, and if you don't have practice with them an experienced user will destroy you.
Honestly I would say with a linked economy all Dust assets should have been MUCH cheaper so as to scale with ship prices in EVE. That being the case, Dust assets could have been seeded to EVE players with very low material costs so that they could be produced in bulk, keeping them at affordable prices and making it very easy to distribute them.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
536
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Posted - 2016.09.07 18:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Full integration to me means one market between the two games along with both games affecting each other. I would like to if DUST locked out planets and moons for planetary infrastructure and mining due to their being ground troops along with orbital resources. Anyway, as this is all purely speculation as integration minimally happened between EVE and DUST, feel free to speculate what level of integration you think would have been best. Afterall, this is just a discussion.
I cannot be bought, but I can be leased.
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Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
1172
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Posted - 2016.09.07 23:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
At the risk of repeating myself, this was supposed to be the way it was right from the start - the whole idea of Walking In Stations (WiS) (introduced to EvE as part of the initial Dust deployment) was so that EvE pilots would be able to interact as avatars on stations with other EvE pilots as well as Dust mercs once the full integration was completed.
Extrapolating from that, we in EvE expected that our planetside PI installations would be prey to Dust mercs if they decided to attack them for some reason, and that EvE pilots would even be able to walk around on the surface at some point. The idea of a free market was common back then, too - the EvE manufacturing would produce all the modules and weapons for Dust, and Dust mercs would purchase them with ISK earnt in game. Prices would presumably be variable as they were (are) in EvE, and a completely free market would have been possible.
From the point that CCP decided not to proceed with WiS, all that went by the wayside. A fantastic opportunity was lost. I was initially hoping that Nova would be a start towards the same goal from a different direction, but that appears not to be likely now, at least not in any short term. The fact that a FTP option is now being introduced to EvE does give some hope however of some form of integration in the future.
Or it might just be CCP's response to the inevitable march towards FTP options in all online games. I can only hope.... :) |
dent 308
Subdreddit
3202
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Posted - 2016.09.08 12:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Integration was the whole point, in my opinion.
Humphrey Bogart (1899-1957)
I should never have switched from scotch to martinis.
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Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
536
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Posted - 2016.09.08 15:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
dent 308 wrote:Integration was the whole point, in my opinion.
Integration was one thing that (was supposed to) set DUST apart from other shooters but the level of integration was just sad and disappointing. I do believe how PC was originally set up would have actually worked out if there was a shared market between EVE and DUST. I am sure Capsulers would have liked to get in on that passive ISK generation (although likely would have to of been adjusted). It would have all been great if capsuleers had a way to block merc clone movements where capsulers and mercs would have to work together to take and hold districts. As DUST had a wholly separate economy and little integration though, we all know how that actually turned out .
I cannot be bought, but I can be leased.
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Marston VC
SVER True Blood RUST415
1901
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Posted - 2016.09.08 16:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
All I want for the new game is a strong eve/nova planetary interaction connection which also includes strong economic incentives for eve players to care about nova while at the same time not being absolutely critical. I would love to be a space mercenary that travels from Corp to Corp, system to system in order to fight for planets for hire.
PI is a feature in eve that is little more then an isk printer right now. With nova there is an opportunity to add so much more to it.
I find it strange that eve focuses so much on the space aspect of space and hardly any attention at all to the planets which ought to be just as important as citadels or space stations.
How is it possible to control a solar system of you don't control the planets in them???
Imagine it, your Corp being overwhelmed in space, only then to hunker down on the planets in the solar systems and being able to launch gorilla attack squads from the planet until the enemy finally decides to take it. I think this would have made dust way more valuable and I think it would be a great and substantial feature to have in nova one day
Marston VC, STB Director
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byte modal
967
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Posted - 2016.09.08 18:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
I personally wanted and expected after a long pseudo beta stage, that equipment, weapons, suits, mods, vehicles, etc., would be seeded within EvE to give industrialists time to build a sizeable stockpile. I imagined that once there was a reasonable stock of equipment, a market link would have been made to start herding DUST mercs to the EvE-driven market. Over time, the static market that we were using would slowly deplete until everything was then purchased and sold via player market.
I never expected to come avatar-to-avatar with an embodied EvE pilot. Their world is space, ours is the ground. I expected communication in realtime via chat, mail, and vComms, squad play, or whatever, but I never thought or expected to meet a pilot on a ship, or have them "shuttle down" to my world.
I expected some generic NPC "tram" type system to "board ships bound for other systems/regions" where the fee would be based on distance and maybe standings or whatever---as just a simple NPC method of travel to break away from being stuck in one merc quarters and free instantaneous travel.
In time, I hoped to have PVE missions and mining caches for exploration and just to get away from things.
I fully expected EvE corps to hire DUST mercs based on specs and combat histories and stats to engage EvE-controlled planet-side installations affecting sovereignty; ground-based weaponry to target and fire upon orbiting EvE pilots; orbital strikes from EvE-side; and whatever immediate interactions that could play out there.
I don't think I wanted anything more than that.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
1172
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Posted - 2016.09.09 00:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:I find it strange that eve focuses so much on the space aspect of space and hardly any attention at all to the planets which ought to be just as important as citadels or space stations.
How is it possible to control a solar system of you don't control the planets in them???
Imagine it, your Corp being overwhelmed in space, only then to hunker down on the planets in the solar systems and being able to launch gorilla attack squads from the planet until the enemy finally decides to take it. I think this would have made dust way more valuable and I think it would be a great and substantial feature to have in nova one day Exactly. I have come to see EvE as being a very one-sided view of the EvE Universe - it just concerns itself with spaceships and space, stations, citadels and manufacturing - all in space. Dust was supposed to be basicly the rest - all the planetside operations, with some bleedthrough to stations with Walking In Stations, which would allow Dust and EvE characters to interact.
Nova could still deliver that, but with CCP seemingly determined not to include such integration from the start I seriously doubt it will happen at all. |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
1172
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Posted - 2016.09.09 00:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
byte modal wrote:I personally wanted and expected after a long pseudo beta stage, that equipment, weapons, suits, mods, vehicles, etc., would be seeded within EvE to give industrialists time to build a sizeable stockpile. I imagined that once there was a reasonable stock of equipment, a market link would have been made to start herding DUST mercs to the EvE-driven market. Over time, the static market that we were using would slowly deplete until everything was then purchased and sold via player market.
I never expected to come avatar-to-avatar with an embodied EvE pilot. Their world is space, ours is the ground. I expected communication in realtime via chat, mail, and vComms, squad play, or whatever, but I never thought or expected to meet a pilot on a ship, or have them "shuttle down" to my world.
I expected some generic NPC "tram" type system to "board ships bound for other systems/regions" where the fee would be based on distance and maybe standings or whatever---as just a simple NPC method of travel to break away from being stuck in one merc quarters and free instantaneous travel.
In time, I hoped to have PVE missions and mining caches for exploration and just to get away from things.
I fully expected EvE corps to hire DUST mercs based on specs and combat histories and stats to engage EvE-controlled planet-side installations affecting sovereignty; ground-based weaponry to target and fire upon orbiting EvE pilots; orbital strikes from EvE-side; and whatever immediate interactions that could play out there.
I don't think I wanted anything more than that. LOL - that is actually quite a lot! :)
I think much of what you were expecting was supposed to happen, the economic links, the manufacturing of modules, suits, weapons, etc - all of that was supposed to happen through the manufacturing in EvE, and there was in fact going to be the means of interacting with avatars between the two on stations, even kiosks that would allow commerce "in the flesh" so to speak. The idea of hiring Dust mercs or transporting them across the galaxy in ships was also part of the bigger picture at the time.
None of that happened, since the very first venture into that world, Walking In Stations, was abandoned by CCP due to poor EvE player acceptance of it. Basicly, EvE players didn't like the fact that resources were being used on those sort of ventures that they felt should have been used on "their game", and that changes to "their game" were being made that they didn't want and didn't ask for. To the average EvE player, all these avatars, Captain's Quarters, etc, were just a waste of time and energy. |
FraggerMike
G.R.A.V.E
413
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Posted - 2016.09.09 12:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote: ...None of that happened, since the very first venture into that world, Walking In Stations, was abandoned by CCP due to poor EvE player acceptance of it. Basicly, EvE players didn't like the fact that resources were being used on those sort of ventures that they felt should have been used on "their game", and that changes to "their game" were being made that they didn't want and didn't ask for. To the average EvE player, all these avatars, Captain's Quarters, etc, were just a waste of time and energy.
Never could understand that. EvE was/is already a full-fledged, legit game. Adding to EvE via Dust 514 should have been something to look forward to and indulge in. After all, if Dust had gone the way planned, would it not have expanded the EvE gameplay immensely? And in ways that would have only enhanced the EvE Universe.
CEO of G.R.A.V.E
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
7843
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Posted - 2016.09.09 12:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Considering the problems with DUST, it is probably good that it was not integrated more. Integration would not have helped with the performance problems as a FPS, so it probably would still have died, and with greater integration it might have caused problems for EVE.
However, Nova seems to be a smooth FPS when demoed at FanFest, but needs something to set it apart from other FPS's, so integration with EVE would definitely help it. Having both games running on the same platform should help make integration easier.
At the very least I would like to see a shared market.
I would also like to see district owners able to apply a tax rate to Planetary Interaction facilities which fall within their district. If NPC districts apply a tax rate of 15%, then an EVE player would gain an advantage to supporting a DUST Corp which would give a more favorable tax rate.
Both of these interactions have high impact with only very minor changes to EVE.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
16036
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Posted - 2016.09.09 22:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
What if there weren't hit detection issues?
What if there were actual tutorials?
What if there were V/AV balance?
What if the PS3s had more power?
What if we could ride the Tram?
What if CCP had infinite resources to do whatever they wanted in Dust?
This game had so many flaws that it is a testament to the spirit of it that people played at all.
In all honesty, some of the what ifs, especially the original, are unrealistic. Full integration would have been a massive undertaking that would have been larger than the entirety of the rest of the game. At that point, you may as well have said "What if EVE allowed characters to freely roam the universe outside their ship as well as within it?"
Of course I am always more of a realist.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
545
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Posted - 2016.09.13 13:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
As said in the original post, this was just meant as a discussion while waiting for news on Project Nova (as said in the original post). Plus, it might give CCP some insight about player importance of integration between EVE and their latest FPS. Thanks for trying to kill the thread though.
I cannot be bought, but I can be leased.
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Viktor Hadah Jr
0uter.Heaven
10211
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Posted - 2016.09.13 14:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
dent 308 wrote:Integration was the whole point, in my opinion.
From the dust side it was.
From the EVE side it was; why the f*ck would i want a game i don't play affecting the game i do play.
Keys and lockboxes are the root of all evil.
21 Day EVE Trial Bitches
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byte modal
968
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Posted - 2016.09.13 16:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
^From an EvE player's perpective, I've fantasized of boots on the ground since 2006. I am not representative of all of EvE. Neither was that statement.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
1173
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Posted - 2016.09.13 23:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
byte modal wrote:^From an EvE player's perpective, I've fantasized of boots on the ground since 2006. I am not representative of all of EvE. Neither was that statement. Me, too. I still think the best thing that ever happened in EvE was being able to actually walk around in my flesh-and-blood clone body, if only in my Captain's Quarters. However that in itself made things worse, because I couldn't get out through that damned door!
Why do we still have Captain's Quarters if we are never to be able to go anywhere else? Everything you can do in Captain's Quarters can be done from menus in the ship hanger. That alone, I suppose, adds a degree of "hope" to the idea that the games may eventually integrate, but so much would have to happen in EvE to allow that. We would for instance, need some sort of station environments to be built, which would be a mammoth effort on a par with building Dust maps, potentially one for each type of station for each faction.
The avatar creation systems would probably have to be shared as well, to make sure that the graphics of one game could render the avatars of the other game. Ideally, though, the one avatar would be able to train either as an EvE pilot or as a Dust/NOVA merc, and be free to switch between games at will, one minute flying space ships in EvE, then jumping on a shuttle to the surface of a planet (or a station for that matter), don armour and weapons and go into battle.
I see fundamentally no reason any of this can't happen - it's just a matter of will and desire on the part of CCP. The amount of development it would take might be a problem since it would detract from CCP's current VR obsession.
Oooh, I know, make Dust/NOVA VR compatible! That should do it. :) |
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