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HAV turret placement.

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Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.06.28 05:04:00 - [1] - Quote The small turrets did need attention, and it is clear from the recent changes that the design goal is to give better controls for the small guns while leaving weak spots to require infantry support. The decision to cripple the top turret by limiting it to the right side AND center the left turret is ... odd in my opinion. A logical choice would be to restore the front turret to the side tread, and mirror the top turret on the right side. They could keep a small range of motion (120 degrees?) and emphasize the attack role of the HAV, while making them vulnerable to flanking and rear ambushes. The gallente tank is harder. I see there was effort to increase racial differentiation, but there isn't another logical place to put it. I understand the current design uses cues from modern tanks, but those are decidedly trying to cover weak spots, not provide them for balance. The current top gun movement restrictions just made them a less enjoyable experience for the gunner. Edit addendum: Another issue with the turret changes is no defense against dropships that are circling in front of the tanks. Flanking the rear is good flying, but hovering at an angle that even the small turrets can't return fire breaks the first rule of shooting games "If you can shoot them, they can shoot you". Under the guns or rear flanking is one thing, but hovering straight in front is an issue in my opinion, especially with how much harder they are to take down now.
Karras Hearn Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.06.28 05:09:00 - [2] - Quote +1
Lilianna Sentinel Bragian Order Amarr Empire 295	Posted - 2012.06.28 05:13:00 - [3] - Quote One thing that I kind of like about the top turret is that it encourages co-operation between driver and gunner. Although the firing arc seriously needs to be adjusted You can fire to the right...but GOD DAMN YOU IF YOU WANT TO TRY AND FIRE TO THE LEFT! >:(
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.06.28 05:19:00 - [4] - Quote Lilianna Sentinel wrote: One thing that I kind of like about the top turret is that it encourages co-operation between driver and gunner. Although the firing arc seriously needs to be adjusted You can fire to the right...but GOD DAMN YOU IF YOU WANT TO TRY AND FIRE TO THE LEFT! >:( I could see placing both turrets up there if they want to be different/teamwork about it, but only the right and no turret covering the left? My tank ends up driving like this: \.. \| ..\...._ Which just looks funny
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.06.28 05:40:00 - [5] - Quote Hmm I'm kinda wondering why they changed it at all, I felt it was a good setup before. I haven't had a chance to try the HAVs yet, but I was planning on specializing in them this build, so this news its kinda disturbing.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.06.28 05:48:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Hmm I'm kinda wondering why they changed it at all, I felt it was a good setup before. I haven't had a chance to try the HAVs yet, but I was planning on specializing in them this build, so this news its kinda disturbing. Controlling the top turret was wonky at best last patch. Now it is a restricted chore and still fires off-bore shots occasionally anyhow.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.06.28 05:55:00 - [7] - Quote Well yeah I know it had issues, but I dont think restricting its movement was the proper fix to movement problems lol
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.06.28 06:00:00 - [8] - Quote Agreed, hence OP. CmdrWang was kind enough to forward this thread to the design team, so if you have any additional feedback/suggestions, they are going to look into it.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.06.28 06:34:00 - [9] - Quote Well I'll be making a straight rush to HAVs as soon as servers are back up, I'll bookmark this thread so expect incoming feedback and suggestions from me at the least.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.06.28 08:02:00 - [10] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Edit addendum: Another issue with the turret changes is no defense against dropships that are circling in front of the tanks. Flanking the rear is good flying, but hovering at an angle that even the small turrets can't return fire breaks the first rule of shooting games "If you can shoot them, they can shoot you". Under the guns or rear flanking is one thing, but hovering straight in front is an issue in my opinion, especially with how much harder they are to take down now. Welcome to the EVE universe, where someone can shoot you while you can't hit them for ****. Rock-Paper-Scissor-Falcon FTW.

Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.06.28 08:07:00 - [11] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Edit addendum: Another issue with the turret changes is no defense against dropships that are circling in front of the tanks. Flanking the rear is good flying, but hovering at an angle that even the small turrets can't return fire breaks the first rule of shooting games "If you can shoot them, they can shoot you". Under the guns or rear flanking is one thing, but hovering straight in front is an issue in my opinion, especially with how much harder they are to take down now. Welcome to the EVE universe, where someone can shoot you while you can't hit them for ****. Rock-Paper-Scissor-Falcon FTW. Attacking from behind sure. But immune while approaching and attacking from the front? Too far. In my opinion at least.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.06.28 08:22:00 - [12] - Quote Considering the way dropships can attack now, really they should have the upper hand by flying almost directly above the HAV and raining hell down from above. Once again I haven't had a chance to try out the HAV much so I can't comment much yet. Does going into first person with the main turret still above you still allow you to angle the turret higher than in third person view? If so, that may solve your Dropship problem.
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2012.06.28 08:33:00 - [13] - Quote Agree with OP. Currently the idiom "a thorn in my side" is very real to HAVs. What use are small guns if they're restricted to the tracking speed of the big one!?!? Currently you could just sit on the left side of the tank using scout and kill it with a SCRAMBLER! No-go.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.06.28 08:35:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Considering the way dropships can attack now, really they should have the upper hand by flying almost directly above the HAV and raining hell down from above. Once again I haven't had a chance to try out the HAV much so I can't comment much yet. Does going into first person with the main turret still above you still allow you to angle the turret higher than in third person view? If so, that may solve your Dropship problem. It only gives a few extra degrees. The dropships shooting straight down is a bit much, especially if the tank's small guns can't return the favor. Restrict the large gun sure, but small turrets that can see each other shouldn't have only one able to shoot.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.06.28 15:43:00 - [15] - Quote The "camera" on the turrets need work as well, if the top turret gets in your way, you can't see anything but the inside off the turret. It happens quite a lot.
Uncle AWOL Protheans BetaMax. 38	Posted - 2012.06.28 16:44:00 - [16] - Quote agreed. the turrets definitely still need working on.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.06.29 08:08:00 - [17] - Quote This isn't quite related to the turret placement but I'd like to point it out if the devs are not aware It seems that on the new Skirmish map, turret missiles do not explode when they impact the terrain. They do explode when hitting structures, walls, vehicles, and other elements, but not the terrain. I think there maybe a glitch in the collision detection, but its making using the missile launcher on that map rather difficult. As for the smaller turret placement, I just got my fitted tank tonight, so I'll do more testing with my gunner tomorrow. I have a few ideas already so I'll drop up some diagrams and whatnot later once I do some more testing.
Sergeant Wiznowski Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 38	Posted - 2012.06.29 08:55:00 - [18] - Quote I just tried militia HAV's for the first time. Inside view is seriously compromised by main canon flashing. It is very hard to target anything and see a hit indicators. I would very very much like to see different controls for vehicles. Really do not like that left stick is for both steering and movement.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2012.06.29 09:10:00 - [19] - Quote Sergeant Wiznowski wrote: I just tried militia HAV's for the first time. Inside view is seriously compromised by main canon flashing. It is very hard to target anything and see a hit indicators. I would very very much like to see different controls for vehicles. Really do not like that left stick is for both steering and movement. I dont really see how you can operate the turret and movement independently without having the movement on a single stick. HAV controls are not so bad once you get used to them.
Sergeant Wiznowski Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 38	Posted - 2012.06.29 09:30:00 - [20] - Quote I only wish for forward backward movement to be moved to R2, L2 while in vehicle. Maybe I will get used to that but right now it feels like I have to stop to change directions fast.



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