DUST Search - Project Nova thoughts, Why Dust Flopped

Bright Cloud wrote:

The game failed due to massive technical failures. People where talking about 30 FRAMES PER MINUTE when playing this game. A FPS game has to run smoothly and not be a choppy mess where only a SSD helped out a bit. The majority of players who booted the game on got turned off due to crappy graphics and that the game was running badly everything else came 2nd.

I could pickup Resistance Fall of Man (one of the first PS3 titles) and it runs 10 times better then dust ever did during its whole lifespan. Yeah the complexity of the SP system might have irritated players but thats in my opinion just a minor reason. CCP needs to learn that the "new game" better runs on a minimum of 60 frames per second under all circumstances otherwise it will fly stright into the garbage can espacially on PC where the playerbase just simply wont accept a half arsed product due to the over saturated market there.

The ideas all around it are good with a variety of combat options. Regardless if you chose infantry, tanking or flying around with a dropship. CCP should really keep that direction ala Battlefield which attracts more mature gamers and less "COD kids".

In my honest opinion CCP should just have moved Dust to PC with the unreal engine 4 as the engine and transferred the PS3 chars 1:1 over as a bonus for loyal vets. Maybe something like a Seperate Dust PC Port account that you then could link with your PSN etc. You would keep your old playerbase and open up to every PC player out there.

But meh who are im to tell that CCP is doing something stupid again? Oh yeah right cause ive been around for several years with this game to know when CCP has a stupid idea and they are about to pull it off regardless what we say.

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Pete B Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 194	Posted - 2016.05.02 11:56:00 - [1] - Quote I under stand that whining, and sobbing isn't going to change the fate of Dust, and in all honesty, its a dead horse thats been beaten beyond any recognition; running on an aged console, using an inneficient, heavy engine, running on a skeleton crew, and is mostly a pipe dream game taken too far. But through all of it, its a great game, that really, should still keep true to the fanbase that made it. The reason I feel it flopped boils down to two main reasons; The link to Eve; Who, on the PS3, actually plays eve and shooter video games on the playstation, a small minority. What does this mean? If its a good shooter, than the EvE link will be ignored, and the players who can get a grasp will enjoy it, but the EvE heavy lore will put non EvE players off mostly. Project Nova is going the right way in this, focusing on being an excellent shooter first, then an EvE linked game. Sure, some lore fanbabys will cry themselves dry at this, but it will attract more players in general, which is always a good thing, a higher playerbase means generally more, and more varied games. Not saying the EvE linked couldn't work, I'm sure if dust had a larger effect in EvE; troops boarding ships, and holding to ransom, battles between ships, with troops control space craft transporters/heavy battle space craft. Troops carry out contracts that affect EvE players' planets, meaning that EvE have to contract groups, or sing mercs, or even "Public Contracts". Advertising/Exposure/Saturation; If Project Nova isn't advertised, its gonna fall under all other Free 2 Play games out there, with the only real exposure being EvE payers.. who already have so much invested in EvE they aren't REALLY gonna spend that much time on Project Nova. Blacklight retribution, Warframe, Loadout, Paragon, etc, all of these are F2P games, all going on a similar vain, all getting better adverting than dust ever had, and unless they can compete in their advertising, their not gonna get enough exposure in an already saturated market. And guess what, another flop. Not because the game is bad, but bad exposure and advertising. In my opinion, Project Nova could fair better by being on PS4, PC and XBox, all F2P through their 'excellent shooter' idea first then EvE second, giving them enough exposure, with public advertising, on TV, Billboards, Youtube, and heck, even spotify. With the next gen console being nearly as powerful as PC, with the added bonus of being standard, allowing for better optimization, it will allow for their '60FPS, high end graphics' aim, as well as some map destruction added in to boot.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1233	Posted - 2016.05.02 13:04:00 - [2] - Quote How about it flopped because the game itself, while fun, is a hot mess of bugs, glitches and overall bad coding. The link to EVE had nothing to do with this game flopping, neither did advertising. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
The Jungian Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 206	Posted - 2016.05.02 14:22:00 - [3] - Quote I called it a couple of years ago. Glad I got out early. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQJEss6DRV0 CCP COMMUNITY SPOTLIGHT: Jungian
Scheneighnay McBob Penumbra or something 7838	Posted - 2016.05.02 15:25:00 - [4] - Quote I think the number one reason Dust failed was due to being on the PS3, which heavily limited what could be done with it. The game never grew like it was supposed to. There are other reasons though, that CCP covered already. How the eve link was executed was pretty big- not necessarily for the reasons you stated, but more because it was extremely difficult to coordinate, and the majority of players couldn't pull it off. Normally that wouldn't be a big deal, but that was the selling point of the game. The anti-tunnel snake taskforce has assembled
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 2210	Posted - 2016.05.02 16:05:00 - [5] - Quote Pete B wrote: its a dead horse thats been beaten beyond any recognition Dude... way to get graphic... I like horses! #ProjectNOVA is upon us! May God have mercy for my enemies because I won't. - George S. Patton Jr.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1381	Posted - 2016.05.02 17:04:00 - [6] - Quote Dust failed because it wasnt close enough to eve. It was supposed to be an fps version of eve. Mmo and lore aspects should always take priority and never go against established eve lore. If they eschew deep eve inspired mmo aspects then nova will fail again even more than dust and most shooters on PC. Shooters are made for console. You can't play a shooter with a keyboard and mouse. That's like playing a fighting game without a fight stick or racing sim without a wheel. Why bother, you're playing it wrong. What made dust noteworthy was being different from mindless fps games. Eve takes experience, time investment, and you have to get over a steep learning curve. That's why people stick with it. It has so much going on and it's so dense once you put a little time in it you want to go all the way. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2761	Posted - 2016.05.02 17:23:00 - [7] - Quote Quote: With the next gen console being nearly as powerful as PC, with the added bonus of being standard, allowing for better optimization, it will allow for their '60FPS, high end graphics' aim, as well as some map destruction added in to boot. Not to be a pc elitist here but you are sorely mistaken if you think next gen consoles are as powerful as pc's. And before you start attacking me go look at planetside 2. Started on pc then a ps4 port came to be. Right now the ps4 version is locked to 30 fps suffers from constant crashes after a while, has several bugs including the chat system breaking mid sentence. And not all next gen games run at 60 fps either. There are lists showing you the resolution games will play at what fps they play at. And loading times havent improved either ive seen a handful of xbox ones take a solid 50-60 seconds just booting up. Lets try to avoid what killed dust. Ccp makes games for pc. You saw their attempt at consoles. Not pretty. Let em make a game on the platform they know best first. Am ded.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7695	Posted - 2016.05.02 19:18:00 - [8] - Quote DUST failed because too many people who tried it quit within the first week of play. There were a few reason for this: - Clunky core game mechanics. * In NOVA they are making sure the core game mechanics are smooth first, and then they will build everything else on top of that. - Complexity without explanation. New players were confused and lost. They did not know what they were doing so they quit. I think complexity discourages new player retention, but conversely encourages veteran player retention. Those who stuck with it long enough to learn how the fitting system worked often stuck around because they liked the complexity of the fitting system. * In NOVA they will start with a limited number of pre-fit suits to choose from, and won't unlock the ability to make custom fittings until they have learned other mechanics, so they don't have to learn too much at one time. Also, those Pre-Fit suits are high quality (not weak militia gear) so they are competing with vets on a more level playing field. - New players were discouraged by coordinated groups of well equipped veteran players who would mow down solo or inexperienced players like a scythe through wheat. * NOVA needs a way to ease new players into combat. Suggestion: Maybe have a game mode that you can only que for solo, and a more advanced game mode that you can only que for if the total time played in the squad exceeds a certain threshold, so newer players can only que if they go in as a large group, and only experienced Veteran players can que for with a single person in their squad. If they fix the problems that lead to very poor new player retention in DUST, then I totally agree that they should advertise NOVA. DUST was never worth advertising. Also NOVA is a PC game, which opens up the vast user base of High Sec miners who want to Alt-Tab to something EVE related. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 15362	Posted - 2016.05.02 21:10:00 - [9] - Quote No amount of Advertising can make a crap game successful. It is not a panacea. Advertising is great for promoting a product, but if the quality of the product can't garner repeat business, advertising becomes a money pit that sucks resources from the budget that could have been used to fix the broken product. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1651	Posted - 2016.05.02 23:12:00 - [10] - Quote TL;DR Make an fps genre game even though you've never made one before. Put it on a console even though you've never done that before. Use old technology. Develop as you go. Watch game flop. CCP logic GÇô This isn't an actual product. This is only a project. We might not do it at all.

LHughes Chaos Of W.A.R 534	Posted - 2016.05.03 11:37:00 - [11] - Quote All I could read was whining and sobbing My signature
XxBlazikenxX WarRavens Imperium Eden 5093	Posted - 2016.05.03 23:08:00 - [12] - Quote While these may or may not be factors, they are not solely the reason Dust failed. Rule #1 of Dust 514: If you get hatemail, you are doing something right. #Imperiumftw
bezmel ferrers DUST University Ivy League 20	Posted - 2016.05.04 00:35:00 - [13] - Quote dust was never allowed to be what it was advertized and when they had very smart ppl like JudgeRhadamanthus telling them exactly how to fix problems ccp ignored them for the stupid vocal minority never adding in base systems like player trading (i know we got something called trading but it was just gifting system) we got proto tanks that cant be scratched by a proto breach forge w dmg stacked we got apex suits as a last ditch effort to grab some cash (i know they hate bps as they were in dust) lastly we had a far more watered down fitting system that didn't explain its self half as well as the one in eve it was time for dust to end a long time ago but at least we got a few more laughs out of the death troughs i am on the youtubes Death is but a door,Time is but a window
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 13397	Posted - 2016.05.04 02:45:00 - [14] - Quote To me, these are the principle reasons why Dust failed. 1. Terrible, terrible, TERRRRRIBLE legacy code. It's so bad that CCP said it's the main reason why some critical fixes and features weren't possible to implement in Dust. 2. Entering an already-aging platform just before the PS4 was announced. 3. Too many big promises from CCP but very little was ever delivered. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 7718	Posted - 2016.05.04 12:46:00 - [15] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: TL;DR Make an fps genre game even though you've never made one before. Put it on a console even though you've never done that before. Use old technology. Develop as you go. Watch game flop. Yes, totally, but CCP will never again be a company that has never made an FPS game before. ' You often learn more from failure than from success... and CCP learned a LOT from DUST! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1654	Posted - 2016.05.04 13:06:00 - [16] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: TL;DR Make an fps genre game even though you've never made one before. Put it on a console even though you've never done that before. Use old technology. Develop as you go. Watch game flop. Yes, totally, but CCP will never again be a company that has never made an FPS game before. ' You often learn more from failure than from success... and CCP learned a LOT from DUST! Yep, which is why we can forgive CCP this time. But next time they might as well hire Dustin Hoffman to advertise their company. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RN0DczbPznY CCP logic GÇô This isn't an actual product. This is only a project. We might not do it at all.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3795	Posted - 2016.05.04 17:44:00 - [17] - Quote Unfortunately I disagree, DUST could have worked. However, there was no, drive or direction. Developers were borrowed on regular occasions, disrupting workflow. Aside from those who did the basic game there were very few "code proficient" developers, which resulted in problems like locked permissions or undecyphrable mechanics. In short DUST failed because of poor management. By the time Rattatai got control it was a too little to late scenario. Hopefully by starting from scratch with an unmodded highly supported engine, with a dedicated team, a lead with good vision and determination we might get somewhere this time. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1048	Posted - 2016.05.04 17:55:00 - [18] - Quote CCP were not switched on to the fact you don't have to 'release' games these days, keep it as a beta and people are more forgiving of the bugs. Releasing it too early also meant it got bad reviews and therefore not more of the mainstream audience. Then they committed the cardinal sin (in new Eden) of an asset reset by announcing Legion and people rightly raged ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 10288	Posted - 2016.05.04 19:28:00 - [19] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: How about it flopped because the game itself, while fun, is a hot mess of bugs, glitches and overall bad coding. The link to EVE had nothing to do with this game flopping, neither did advertising. *Scouts United* Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1937	Posted - 2016.05.05 01:07:00 - [20] - Quote The game failed due to massive technical failures. People where talking about 30 FRAMES PER MINUTE when playing this game. A FPS game has to run smoothly and not be a choppy mess where only a SSD helped out a bit. The majority of players who booted the game on got turned off due to crappy graphics and that the game was running badly everything else came 2nd. I could pickup Resistance Fall of Man (one of the first PS3 titles) and it runs 10 times better then dust ever did during its whole lifespan. Yeah the complexity of the SP system might have irritated players but thats in my opinion just a minor reason. CCP needs to learn that the "new game" better runs on a minimum of 60 frames per second under all circumstances otherwise it will fly stright into the garbage can espacially on PC where the playerbase just simply wont accept a half arsed product due to the over saturated market there. The ideas all around it are good with a variety of combat options. Regardless if you chose infantry, tanking or flying around with a dropship. CCP should really keep that direction ala Battlefield which attracts more mature gamers and less "COD kids". In my honest opinion CCP should just have moved Dust to PC with the unreal engine 4 as the engine and transferred the PS3 chars 1:1 over as a bonus for loyal vets. Maybe something like a Seperate Dust PC Port account that you then could link with your PSN etc. You would keep your old playerbase and open up to every PC player out there. But meh who are im to tell that CCP is doing something stupid again? Oh yeah right cause ive been around for several years with this game to know when CCP has a stupid idea and they are about to pull it off regardless what we say. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.

Michael Arck 6334	Posted - 2016.05.05 04:27:00 - [21] - Quote It failed on many levels and was an absolute success on many others. Bottom line, I got fond memories of Dust 514. I'm also worried that no other FPS will bring such an engaging feeling that Dust provided for a while. Corporations with directors, finance guys, recruiter positions, comms that worked well, RPing, lore, atmosphere, tight white knuckle battles or down to the wire battles that absolutely memorable. Great concept that had a problem expanding upon the ideas. Also plagued with community swaying developers to nerf/buff items that were completely unnecessary leading to a neverending chase the unicorn affair all in the effort of balancing. While we can argue that if Dust was more welcoming to the new player, it would have sustained a better shelf life, I rationalize that isn't the case. You just couldn't step into the Dust universe with a Call of Duty sprint rush with semi autos and wreck shop mindset. This provided a platform for the user to actually engage the game, creating the meta. You had to do your homework with Dust, in which studying, getting healthy advice, trial and errors lead to a more concrete sense of accomplishment when you mastered it. Thus, it sealed a relationship between user and mercenary. You was watching your boy grow into a killer The tech was too limiting as well. The dream was bigger than the box it rested on. It's hard to bring uniqueness to a console community that is so geared to play the same games with the same tactics. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
LHughes Chaos Of W.A.R 560	Posted - 2016.05.05 05:09:00 - [22] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: How about it flopped because the game itself, while fun, is a hot mess of bugs, glitches and overall bad coding. The link to EVE had nothing to do with this game flopping, neither did advertising. He pretty much sums it up yet the paragraph know it alls continue My signature
LHughes Chaos Of W.A.R 560	Posted - 2016.05.05 05:11:00 - [23] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: TL;DR Make an fps genre game even though you've never made one before. Put it on a console even though you've never done that before. Use old technology. Develop as you go. Watch game flop. Yes, totally, but CCP will never again be a company that has never made an FPS game before. ' You often learn more from failure than from success... and CCP learned a LOT from DUST! Is that why your parents waited for you to grow up to have another child? My signature
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 944	Posted - 2016.05.05 06:50:00 - [24] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: The game failed due to massive technical failures. People where talking about 30 FRAMES PER MINUTE when playing this game. A FPS game has to run smoothly and not be a choppy mess where only a SSD helped out a bit. The majority of players who booted the game on got turned off due to crappy graphics and that the game was running badly everything else came 2nd. I could pickup Resistance Fall of Man (one of the first PS3 titles) and it runs 10 times better then dust ever did during its whole lifespan. Yeah the complexity of the SP system might have irritated players but thats in my opinion just a minor reason. CCP needs to learn that the "new game" better runs on a minimum of 60 frames per second under all circumstances otherwise it will fly stright into the garbage can espacially on PC where the playerbase just simply wont accept a half arsed product due to the over saturated market there. The ideas all around it are good with a variety of combat options. Regardless if you chose infantry, tanking or flying around with a dropship. CCP should really keep that direction ala Battlefield which attracts more mature gamers and less "COD kids". In my honest opinion CCP should just have moved Dust to PC with the unreal engine 4 as the engine and transferred the PS3 chars 1:1 over as a bonus for loyal vets. Maybe something like a Seperate Dust PC Port account that you then could link with your PSN etc. You would keep your old playerbase and open up to every PC player out there. But meh who are im to tell that CCP is doing something stupid again? Oh yeah right cause ive been around for several years with this game to know when CCP has a stupid idea and they are about to pull it off regardless what we say. Agreed on pretty much every point here. As far as lag goes, you're simply never going to get rid of network lag, that being the amount of time it takes for someone to do something and their opponent to be updated with it. Framerate lag is obviously nothing to do with that, but rather a memory issue, which hopefully would be fixed on PC, the same way such things are fixed with EvE settings. I agree that there should have simply been a port to PC of Dust in its entirety including all accounts and everything on them. I think CCP suffers from a tendency to want to reinvent the wheel a lot. Porting to PC would have given them a product in the shortest possibly time, and still allow updates on a more flexible platform. Starting from scratch with a completely new product on PC is probably the worst possible approach they could have had for this.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 22431	Posted - 2016.05.05 09:18:00 - [25] - Quote I'm actually convinced that making dust a better shooter first will improve the state of lore in the long run. Those ignorant of the lore like to assert it ruins potential game mechanics whereas in reality it gives them context and meaning. I'm convinced both lore and solid game mechanics can be blended together into a great experience for both groups. That said since Nova I'd going PC way for more EVE players lore and new eden context really needs to come to the fore so that they feel like this shooter exists meaningfully in their game. Waves that dye the land gold. Blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat. A path the Sef descend drawn in ash.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1242	Posted - 2016.05.05 13:56:00 - [26] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I'm actually convinced that making dust a better shooter first will improve the state of lore in the long run. Those ignorant of the lore like to assert it ruins potential game mechanics whereas in reality it gives them context and meaning. I'm convinced both lore and solid game mechanics can be blended together into a great experience for both groups. That said since Nova I'd going PC way for more EVE players lore and new eden context really needs to come to the fore so that they feel like this shooter exists meaningfully in their game. Seriously, did they scrub your brain in Iceland? You like tanks bruh D: But yeah, I hope they make everything solid first and then go from there. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 22434	Posted - 2016.05.05 14:49:00 - [27] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm actually convinced that making dust a better shooter first will improve the state of lore in the long run. Those ignorant of the lore like to assert it ruins potential game mechanics whereas in reality it gives them context and meaning. I'm convinced both lore and solid game mechanics can be blended together into a great experience for both groups. That said since Nova I'd going PC way for more EVE players lore and new eden context really needs to come to the fore so that they feel like this shooter exists meaningfully in their game. Seriously, did they scrub your brain in Iceland? You like tanks bruh D: But yeah, I hope they make everything solid first and then go from there. Nope. I mean I'll still try to convince CCP Frame and CCP Rattati that vehicles should be in the game and that the lore as well as communication with both Nova and EVE players through a better chat menu are must haves but... I'm just more positive at this stage of life I guess. Dust doesn't seem like the be all end all of gaming for me. Waves that dye the land gold. Blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat. A path the Sef descend drawn in ash.


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#ProjectNOVA is upon us!