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Skihids
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
3671
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Posted - 2016.04.30 02:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you have been around for any length of time you know that CCP is the absolute worst company at communication. If you are basing your views on the ramblings of one member of CCP you are most assuredly developing the wrong picture.
If you want to follow a game with open development, join Star Citizen. They have hours of video and dozens of posts WEEKLY.
If SC is Niagra Falls, CCP is that annoying leaky faucet that drips once every couple minutes. Don't expect to have any clue what their intentions are until you actually see the gameplay.
Stop complaining and wait to see what they come out with. Not two months ago we were sure there wasn't going to be a successor to DUST, so be happy there is something, anything coming. |
Skihids
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
3674
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 17:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Skihids wrote:If you have been around for any length of time you know that CCP is the absolute worst company at communication. If you are basing your views on the ramblings of one member of CCP you are most assuredly developing the wrong picture.
If you want to follow a game with open development, join Star Citizen. They have hours of video and dozens of posts WEEKLY.
If SC is Niagra Falls, CCP is that annoying leaky faucet that drips once every couple minutes. Don't expect to have any clue what their intentions are until you actually see the gameplay.
Stop complaining and wait to see what they come out with. Not two months ago we were sure there wasn't going to be a successor to DUST, so be happy there is something, anything coming. Have you considered for a moment that the lack of communication could be deliberate? I can't think of any reason other than that, for the fact that their lack of communication is singularly the main problem and yet they seem completely oblivious to it. I can't believe they're oblivious. I think they're deliberately negligent.
CCP and RSI are fundamently different companies with fundamentally different ideas on the value of transparency and player communication. RSI started as a crowd funded company so it's no surprise they went all-in, especially given the ease of doing so today. You could say that CCP is more traditional in its philosophy, though I would argue that they simply not very good at communication as a company. Game development and communication are two different skill sets and as good as CCP is at developing its main game EO, it is appallingly bad at communication. The entirety of DUST's life has demonstrated that fact. The Rouge wedding was just the most glaringly obvious example. It is impossible to miss if you follow both. |
Skihids
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
3674
|
Posted - 2016.05.01 17:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Nstomper wrote:Marston VC wrote:This is a time that should be filled with optimism. We should be encouraging ccp to green light the game. Not complaining about features ccp has said will eventually make it in just not right from the start. I want this game to happen first. And that's only going to happen if we encourage them to make it.
When we sit back and say things like "omg it's going to be a generic lobby cqc shooter" and then follow that up with "I know they plan to add all this extra stuff after they nail down the core shooter aspects" it just sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining. Your feelings are hurt that they didn't just port dust to pc which would have apparently been the only way to satisfy everyone! Except even then people would have still found reason to complain.....
Anyway. My point is this. We aren't going to even have a generic fps version of dust, let alone all the extra stuff they said would come after that IF the project doesn't get green lit. And what would make it so the project doesn't get green lit?? People bitching and moaning about the game before it's even out of the conceptual development stage.
So let's try to get the game green lit. And then in closed beta. And then start complaining about what it lacks. Rather then just complain complain and complain and then complain some more when for some reason they can the project again...... My mindset right now is "no they are never going to add what i wanted in dust into nova" that is why i made this thread,if i had the thought in my head that they were going to add the things in the future then i wouldnt have made this thread plain and simple. bitching and moaning like it or not is a form of feedback , cpp could have shut down dust and went through this tech demo, static fps, greenlight, testing, and other phases years ago when many people including myself kept telling ccp that what they wanted to do with dust just was not going to work out on the ps3 and that they should move it to the pc. but what did they do? they decided not too listen and instead continue to try to do the impossible which was foolish then they went the path of milking money from its playerbase that was left. Bleh better late than never i gues.......... My mindset right now, is that like they didn't do the things that they said they would in Dust, they likewise won't do them in Nova. There's not even the first inkling that they will. I'm talking walking in stations, open combat between as many combatants on as many different sides as we like, being able to open that damned door to the station from my Captains Quarters, and with my EvE main, Nalianna, take up a rifle and join in the fight. There are so many things that were supposed to happen with Dust and didn't. I won't be happy until Nova does them. And I'm pretty close to certain it never will.
If you want that door to open so you can go walking out into the station or have a FPS battle on your bridge you are playing the wrong game because it is never going to happen. It's not because CCP lacks the will, it's because of the code and architecture restrictions. EO is a single threaded Mainframe application that runs the entire EO universe. If too much occurs at once it slows down and you get TD. That won't work for an FPS. You won't ever get mixed fleet operations and FPS in one experience. That's why Valkarie will never be linked to EO in realtime. CCP would have to completely rewrite the EO code under a new architecture and that's not going to happen.
Valkarie and Nova may get linked economically because it isn't done in realtime, but that is the most you can expect.
RSI is building exactly that game in Star Citizen. It is using a distributed architecture for all the code, capital ships, single seat fighters, and FPS. They can do this because they are starting from scratch with that plan. It's not something you can retrofit to the EVE Universe. |
Skihids
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
3674
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 02:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:For the record, I don't think that the developers of Star Citizen have any intention to directly compete with the likes of Eve Online. They just want to be their own different game.
No, RSI isn't trying to compete directly with CCP. The player's experience in each universe is completely different for one. In EO you play an immortal pilot and you have direct control over the economy. In SC you are a normal mortal who can eventually die and you don't have control over the overall economy because players comprise at most 10% of the population. AI takes jobs you don't and will keep the economy running.
SC won't compete with Nova either. Though SC has FPS play it isn't focused on battles and continued "deaths" will lead to artificial body parts and eventual perma-death.
I see SC more as an "Everyman" experience where you chose the activity you want and the fun comes from the first person immersion in a fantastic universe. I haven't played EO, but I see that like DUST to be a more competitive environment where you measure your progress against others.
There is certainly room for both games. I enjoyed DUST and played it heavily until I realized that it wasn't ever going to become the game we were promised. I will play Nova if/when it is available with the hope that it will fulfill the original promise. I will also join Valkarie in July when my OR CV1 arrives. I'm a SC backer and I am very excited about its future. I'm hoping that friendly competition makes both games better. |
Skihids
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
3674
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 02:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Skihids wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Nstomper wrote:Marston VC wrote:This is a time that should be filled with optimism. We should be encouraging ccp to green light the game. Not complaining about features ccp has said will eventually make it in just not right from the start. I want this game to happen first. And that's only going to happen if we encourage them to make it.
When we sit back and say things like "omg it's going to be a generic lobby cqc shooter" and then follow that up with "I know they plan to add all this extra stuff after they nail down the core shooter aspects" it just sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining. Your feelings are hurt that they didn't just port dust to pc which would have apparently been the only way to satisfy everyone! Except even then people would have still found reason to complain.....
Anyway. My point is this. We aren't going to even have a generic fps version of dust, let alone all the extra stuff they said would come after that IF the project doesn't get green lit. And what would make it so the project doesn't get green lit?? People bitching and moaning about the game before it's even out of the conceptual development stage.
So let's try to get the game green lit. And then in closed beta. And then start complaining about what it lacks. Rather then just complain complain and complain and then complain some more when for some reason they can the project again...... My mindset right now is "no they are never going to add what i wanted in dust into nova" that is why i made this thread,if i had the thought in my head that they were going to add the things in the future then i wouldnt have made this thread plain and simple. bitching and moaning like it or not is a form of feedback , cpp could have shut down dust and went through this tech demo, static fps, greenlight, testing, and other phases years ago when many people including myself kept telling ccp that what they wanted to do with dust just was not going to work out on the ps3 and that they should move it to the pc. but what did they do? they decided not too listen and instead continue to try to do the impossible which was foolish then they went the path of milking money from its playerbase that was left. Bleh better late than never i gues.......... My mindset right now, is that like they didn't do the things that they said they would in Dust, they likewise won't do them in Nova. There's not even the first inkling that they will. I'm talking walking in stations, open combat between as many combatants on as many different sides as we like, being able to open that damned door to the station from my Captains Quarters, and with my EvE main, Nalianna, take up a rifle and join in the fight. There are so many things that were supposed to happen with Dust and didn't. I won't be happy until Nova does them. And I'm pretty close to certain it never will. If you want that door to open so you can go walking out into the station or have a FPS battle on your bridge you are playing the wrong game because it is never going to happen. It's not because CCP lacks the will, it's because of the code and architecture restrictions. EO is a single threaded Mainframe application that runs the entire EO universe. If too much occurs at once it slows down and you get TD. That won't work for an FPS. You won't ever get mixed fleet operations and FPS in one experience. That's why Valkarie will never be linked to EO in realtime. CCP would have to completely rewrite the EO code under a new architecture and that's not going to happen. Valkarie and Nova may get linked economically because it isn't done in realtime, but that is the most you can expect. RSI is building exactly that game in Star Citizen. It is using a distributed architecture for all the code, capital ships, single seat fighters, and FPS. They can do this because they are starting from scratch with that plan. It's not something you can retrofit to the EVE Universe. It's not about whether I want that door to open or not. It's about the fact this was what we were promised in the early days of Walking in Stations and Dust, and I still want that. I believed then and I believe now that it would vastly enrich the EvE Online experience, which is how it was presented to the EvE Online community. Unfortunately, they handled it wrong (sound familiar?) and offsided the EvE people, who came to understand and/or believe that any development in this regard would detract from fixing the many things they perceived were still wrong with EvE Online. In a way it came down to one major issue - EvE Online players generally don't actually want any change. They would prefer to see all the bugs fixed first before any more changes are made, because changes just bring more bugs. Whether or not they might have found some use for WiS is moot - they threw the baby out with the bathwater.
My take is that CCP dreams big, and often those dreams are not based on the reality of what they can actually deliver. Looking back on the promises made for DUST we can laugh at the ability of the PS3 to get anywhere near them. Massive player count, huge maps, full racial assets and procedurally generated planets Yet they thought it would all be possible.
Walking in station would introduce a sort of FPS into a single threaded Mainframe application. I suppose it could work in a limited way if it was only social an therefore weathered TD with grace. Still, it would be a big job to integrate. They probably wanted it and talked it up just like they did procedural generation for DUST.
It's a natural human trait to dream big, I think CCP is better at dreaming than delivering and you just have to keep that in mind when you watch the presentations. |
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