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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
22383
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Posted - 2016.04.29 12:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Did anyone ever think about unlocking say for example T2 ammunition types or something rather similar for weapons through the proficiency skill rather than having flat damage increases?
I'll try to compose my thoughts on this matter but CCP Rattati did mention that he wanted to introduce modular weapons fittings and such. Perhaps increasing your proficiency opens up the use of these T2 ammunition types which offer only minute differences but are still worth getting if you plan on using weapons in specific ways.
T2 might excel in certain roles light increasing optimal range or modifying a damage profile more significantly but would also come with more notable draw backs for players who use them like increased spool up times, faster heat build up, or slower reloads.
Waves that dye the land gold.
Blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat.
A path the Sef descend drawn in ash.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
22386
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Posted - 2016.04.29 17:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I agree. I could see it being something more like a swappable mod for the gun rather than something you swap on the fly. Besides, we are all just going to use Antimatter anyways ;)
All Amarr players will resort to using #ScorchOP and we all know Minnies love their Tremor Ammo...
Waves that dye the land gold.
Blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat.
A path the Sef descend drawn in ash.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
22396
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Posted - 2016.04.29 20:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
byte modal wrote:Ok, back for a moment.
What if we are assuming primary and secondary weapon types (light and sidearm) where each weapon has a primary and secondary ammo type. In addition to that, maybe connect ammo slots to the suit based on class or something. I'm rambling...
Alright, so each weapon offers the player a maximum of two ammo type slots per weapon. At a maximum, primary light weapons can toggle either ammo type A or ammo type B on field and in action. It would require a reload animation as a hindrance. Same for sidearm or secondary weapon. Suit class may add an additional level of restriction. The lighter classes get (just for example!) 4 ammo type slots max; med gets 3 (even if their two weapons are capable of supporting 4 total); and heavy with 2. Numbers here are just generic to help illustrate my point. Also, I'm assuming light class as having considerably less HP to balance the additional ammo type options in field.
The point is, your suit class (however it's classified) dictates your maximum carry capacity thus requiring you to prioritize not just your weaponry, but ammo type that you choose to carry. If we have 4 ammo types per weapon (again, just a number here), you still would only be able to choose to carry 2 for your primary and one for your sidearm/secondary as a medium suit class. Or even less, depending. So in this case, you would need to be very considerate of what engagements you intend to enter before deployment.
A heavy in this example would be able to carry 2 ammo types: 1 for primary and 1 for secondary; 2 for primary with no secondary; or 2 for secondary with no primary. Each type being hot-swapable during combat but requiring a reload sequence risking a moment of vulnerability.
Suit class is somewhat useless here other than to use as an example. This may negate the point of having multiple weapons. It may also create vastly more complex combat situations to react to in the moment. He's got a rail rifle with a specialized ranged ammo? Let me just get close enough.... ah crap! He also has antimatter?!
I also think though, this would lead to armor and shield type specializations to counter ammo types. But this all is going off the deep end now....
OK. The general idea is put out. Sorry for the skitzo method of conveying it ;) Also sorry for possible derail!
...back to work.
Sounds super complicated. Can you stream line that down into something more manageable.
Waves that dye the land gold.
Blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat.
A path the Sef descend drawn in ash.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
22397
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Posted - 2016.04.29 20:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Avallo Kantor wrote:Agreed. As a thought experiment on a feature, try to think of it as if you were designing such a feature. What is the method / functions you could use that would:
1) Require the least amount of new code
2) Be the simplest to write / read / maintain
3) Has the least number of "cases"
4) How could this be expanded upon in the future?
When designing features try to think of something that would have a small number of different cases, as each use case you add inevitably adds edge cases which can be nightmarish to hash out. Ask yourself this: What does this case do to make the user experience more fun / make the backend work better?
Every consider that proficiency could be a super casual mechanic consisting say of 5 stacks of a very minor bonus that players earn in a session with weapons. The more you use one weapon in a session the more stacks you accrue however it isn't necessarily difficult to earn these stacks with different weapons.
When you log out or if a certain amount of time passes perhaps those proficiency stacks fade away. Ideally this would represent how we are all trained in the use of all military hardware however are more proficient in the short term based on how often we use something.
Avallo you mentioned before that earning permanent proficiency modifiers would not work because off the effort involved attaining them as well as how that would streamline player into FOTM behavior... how does this short term proficiency mechanic sound to you?
Waves that dye the land gold.
Blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat.
A path the Sef descend drawn in ash.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
22426
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Posted - 2016.05.03 15:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I agree. I could see it being something more like a swappable mod for the gun rather than something you swap on the fly. Besides, we are all just going to use Antimatter anyways ;) Unfortunately, due to the different ammos only working on the different rifles, you have to swap out the rifle. Something you will learn very quickly is that Rattati really doesn't care if something is done a certain way in EVE. If it makes sense to him in an FPS setting, he will do it regardless of how EVE does it. I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong, I'm just saying that "Because EVE does it this way" is typically not a valid argument in Rattatis eyes unless there is other reasons to back it up. And therein, Rattati wrecks it for me. There is a REASON that rail guns and blasters only use hybrid ammo, which only does kinetic and thermal damage. It's the nature of the guns. Blasters only fire a superheated plasma derived from what's inside the casing of the hybrid ammo, while railguns fire the whole thing and allow the kinetic energy to create the plasma on impact. What you're saying is that Rattati would be willing to throw out ALL the science that's built into that, just to suit being able to put a different ammo type in a rail or assault rifle. I have long considered a lot of the things that Rattati apparently did to Dust (I wasn't here at the time, I think) to be ludicrous and extremely ill advised. Interestingly, many of these things are what Dusters actually like about Dust. Count me out. If you throw the rules out you can do anything and it's the idea that you can do anything you like that destroys structure in a game and leads inexorably to FOTM, which I personally loath. I'll look at the Nova Alpha/Beta, if I'm invited, but I'll be dropping it like a hot potato if I sense any of this sort of thing in it. As I said, if there is a good reason gameplay reason for it he's all in. But he won't make something that is bad for the game "because lore". I'm not saying he's completely insensitive to lore, but I am saying that he knows not everything translates 1:1 and he won't keep something if it doesn't. I'll admit that things are the way they are in EVE (In most cases) for a good reason. But that's not 100% always true when you try to apply the same concepts to an FPS game. And don't think I'm specifically ragging on ammo, AI think that one won't be problematic, just making a general statement.
I honestly hate the recurring idea that lore is there to screw things up for people. It isn't. It provides context for everything that exists in the game.
That said I don't think we'll have a model that features four kinds of damage like in EVE. Well still likely have standard damage profiles for weapons and ammo types if they exist will modify those percentages rather that determine it.
A lena is right with some of his thinking. Keeping weapons consistent with the eve universe is a great thing however if it jeopardizes game balance then let's open up discussion with groups like the ISD or Novas version of and see how we can make lore work for us to suit game mechanics
Waves that dye the land gold.
Blessed breath to nurture life in a land of wheat.
A path the Sef descend drawn in ash.
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