DUST Search - Proficiency in NOVA

Alena Asakura wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Alena Asakura wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

I agree. I could see it being something more like a swappable mod for the gun rather than something you swap on the fly. Besides, we are all just going to use Antimatter anyways ;)

Unfortunately, due to the different ammos only working on the different rifles, you have to swap out the rifle.

Something you will learn very quickly is that Rattati really doesn't care if something is done a certain way in EVE. If it makes sense to him in an FPS setting, he will do it regardless of how EVE does it.

I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong, I'm just saying that "Because EVE does it this way" is typically not a valid argument in Rattatis eyes unless there is other reasons to back it up.

And therein, Rattati wrecks it for me. There is a REASON that rail guns and blasters only use hybrid ammo, which only does kinetic and thermal damage. It's the nature of the guns. Blasters only fire a superheated plasma derived from what's inside the casing of the hybrid ammo, while railguns fire the whole thing and allow the kinetic energy to create the plasma on impact. What you're saying is that Rattati would be willing to throw out ALL the science that's built into that, just to suit being able to put a different ammo type in a rail or assault rifle.

I have long considered a lot of the things that Rattati apparently did to Dust (I wasn't here at the time, I think) to be ludicrous and extremely ill advised. Interestingly, many of these things are what Dusters actually like about Dust.

Count me out. If you throw the rules out you can do anything and it's the idea that you can do anything you like that destroys structure in a game and leads inexorably to FOTM, which I personally loath. I'll look at the Nova Alpha/Beta, if I'm invited, but I'll be dropping it like a hot potato if I sense any of this sort of thing in it.


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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8094	Posted - 2016.04.29 05:23:00 - [1] - Quote The vibe I got from the Rattati interviews is that you will more or less have access to all of the basic equipment very very quickly. As suggested in a later post, skilling into a weapon unlocks options, not necessarily upgrades. Honestly I doubt we'll even have tiers, at least not ones locked behind skill walls. Chances are we'll see more of a tiered specialization, where you start off very generic and then unlock specialized version that have a tradeoff one one thing to gain another. In fact skilling into a certain specialization may offer a bonus unique to just that weapon...so for example you start with an Assault Rail Rifle....skilling into that unlocks both the Tactical Rail Rifle and the Burst Rail Rifle....skilling deeper into the Tactical would say give increased headshot damage for Tactical Rail Rifles, where the Burst would get decreased charge time for Burst Rail rifles. Essentially the bonus is specially tailored for that weapon variant to really draw out the playstyle its designed for. You could get even more fancy and dictate variant unlocks through certain conditions. For example to unlock the Tactical Rail Rifle you need to do X amount of Headshot Damage with an Assault Rail Rifle. Granted that could get obnoxious depending on the conditions but it's just a thought. Additionally we could see bonuses that are unlocked for a family of weapon....for example simply using Hybrid Rail weapons will increase reload speed for all Hybrid Rail Weapons....that way even if you switch weapons, staying within the same family of them will still offer some benefit earned from using the previous weapon. The only glaring issue that I think needs to be carefully assessed that if skilling up is caused by doing damage....we should really address how to avoid the issue of boosting and people sitting in the corner of the ship shooting each other and skilling up while ignoring the rest of the game. You dont want to encourage behavior that will take people out of the battle because they would rather go skill up in a more efficient way. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8100	Posted - 2016.04.29 16:12:00 - [2] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: The only glaring issue that I think needs to be carefully assessed that if skilling up is caused by doing damage....we should really address how to avoid the issue of boosting and people sitting in the corner of the ship shooting each other and skilling up while ignoring the rest of the game. You dont want to encourage behavior that will take people out of the battle because they would rather go skill up in a more efficient way. Extremely important point. Perhaps it should be based on the number of DIFFERENT targets that are hit, as well as the amount of damage over a given amount of time. Hmm, number of unique individuals killed with the weapon? That's also an option. We are need to consider proficiency in suits and modules as well. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8100	Posted - 2016.04.29 16:45:00 - [3] - Quote I agree. I could see it being something more like a swappable mod for the gun rather than something you swap on the fly. Besides, we are all just going to use Antimatter anyways ;) EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8112	Posted - 2016.05.01 15:47:00 - [4] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I agree. I could see it being something more like a swappable mod for the gun rather than something you swap on the fly. Besides, we are all just going to use Antimatter anyways ;) Unfortunately, due to the different ammos only working on the different rifles, you have to swap out the rifle. Something you will learn very quickly is that Rattati really doesn't care if something is done a certain way in EVE. If it makes sense to him in an FPS setting, he will do it regardless of how EVE does it. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8128	Posted - 2016.05.03 03:17:00 - [5] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Absolutely rubbish. Weapons should not do more damage the more you use them, that's just pathetic and one of many reasons why player retention in Dust was so bad. In one of the interviews Hilmar gave he said he wanted more realism, well guess what, a real gun will do just as much damage if fired by a 4 year old kid or a 40 year old combat veteran. Novas not even lit and you're already looking at ways to get advantages over new players. You're a ******* disgrace. I suppose it would be more realistic if experience with a weapon decreased reload times (because you get faster with practice), reduced kick (as you learn to compensate for the kick and bring it back to true zero more efficiently), or improved rang (as you learn to compensate for bullet drop or the effect of crosswinds), but % damage is a stat that is easier to apply across the board. Still, I suppose you have a point... about a damage bonus not being realistic, at least. I think you are off a bit in your assessment of my motivations. (Let me preface this with the fact that I do not subscribe to "This is how EVE does it therefor it is good" mentality, but I think in this case it's an example of something I think EVE does well) I actually don't have as much of an issue with a damage skill bonus, what I took issue is WHEN you got it in DUST. I access the "Proficiency" skill in DUST you had to grind through 5 levels of "Operation" SP (and we all know how long level 5 takes) to get to the Proficiency skill to get the damage buff. This meant that there was a very long time between starting the game and getting that damage buff, which admittedly was a significant advantage to those who had it compared to new players who would not have it for a long time. EVE on the other hand has the damage buff for the skill on the "Operation" skill, so it's actually the first buff you get, and then the secondary buffing stats come a bit later. This means that the damage buff is literally the first thing a new player will unlock when using a new weapon which instills a sense of progress and reward early on because damage is really the first things new players are thinking about. Additionally the time scale is typically really short, so for example say Heavy Missiles is a x3 skill in EVE. This means that Level 1 is unlocked in less than half an hour, level 2 in about 2 hours, level 3 in about 10 and a half hours. So in the case of EVE where each level is +5% damage, a new player can get a +15% damage in literally a day. Level 4 and 5 obviously take a bit longer and provide an additional reward to veterans, it's a far less difference than what we saw in DUST. This drastically reduces the differential between Brand New Players and Veterans, while still providing a benefit to veterans, but also immediate gratification to new players. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8131	Posted - 2016.05.03 13:29:00 - [6] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I agree. I could see it being something more like a swappable mod for the gun rather than something you swap on the fly. Besides, we are all just going to use Antimatter anyways ;) Unfortunately, due to the different ammos only working on the different rifles, you have to swap out the rifle. Something you will learn very quickly is that Rattati really doesn't care if something is done a certain way in EVE. If it makes sense to him in an FPS setting, he will do it regardless of how EVE does it. I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong, I'm just saying that "Because EVE does it this way" is typically not a valid argument in Rattatis eyes unless there is other reasons to back it up. And therein, Rattati wrecks it for me. There is a REASON that rail guns and blasters only use hybrid ammo, which only does kinetic and thermal damage. It's the nature of the guns. Blasters only fire a superheated plasma derived from what's inside the casing of the hybrid ammo, while railguns fire the whole thing and allow the kinetic energy to create the plasma on impact. What you're saying is that Rattati would be willing to throw out ALL the science that's built into that, just to suit being able to put a different ammo type in a rail or assault rifle. I have long considered a lot of the things that Rattati apparently did to Dust (I wasn't here at the time, I think) to be ludicrous and extremely ill advised. Interestingly, many of these things are what Dusters actually like about Dust. Count me out. If you throw the rules out you can do anything and it's the idea that you can do anything you like that destroys structure in a game and leads inexorably to FOTM, which I personally loath. I'll look at the Nova Alpha/Beta, if I'm invited, but I'll be dropping it like a hot potato if I sense any of this sort of thing in it. As I said, if there is a good reason gameplay reason for it he's all in. But he won't make something that is bad for the game "because lore". I'm not saying he's completely insensitive to lore, but I am saying that he knows not everything translates 1:1 and he won't keep something if it doesn't. I'll admit that things are the way they are in EVE (In most cases) for a good reason. But that's not 100% always true when you try to apply the same concepts to an FPS game. And don't think I'm specifically ragging on ammo, AI think that one won't be problematic, just making a general statement. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 8132	Posted - 2016.05.03 17:37:00 - [7] - Quote ^Exactly EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer