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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
718
   |
Posted - 2016.03.18 11:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
jade gamester wrote:We have all seen these attempts on balance...
When nerfing weapon x weapon y stands out etc etc
My is this?? On a podcast the other week I said what is true, the player Base will find a way to break it.
As of lately jump mods... the idea and design is brilliant however the player Base stuck a mass driver or plc and broke the module.
So what I suggest is a lockdown on weapons.
Gallente weaponry to be strictly used on Gallente suits. I know this takes away that feeling of "freedom" but think of it like this.
The rail rifle... so you balance this weapon to the Caldari suit?
So after some tweaks etc it's nicely balanced.
A player comes along grabs that weapon slaps it on an amar assault for example... puts on 3 dmg mods and boom it's broke.
Anyway back on task... the issue we face in dust is... "WE NEED MORE WEAPONS!!!"
Give us what we want... a mass variety.. but, make sure it's balanced for all. What I mean by that is, make sure all fractions have a shotgun orrr a variant of a cqc weapon as an example
By doing that people won't scream "omg I can't use a fricking shotgun on my amar scout"
On that note I'm going to throw something out there as a pc vet/ heavy pro. Why is it that the amar is most dominant with the hmg?? I run the min sentinel 90% of the time but I know i could do better if I run the amar. These are the reasons balance doesn't work. The hmg on the min sentinel is as balanced as it comes. You want ultimate dmg?? You sacrifice health you want speed? You sacrifice armour. Etc etc...
Me and valcore had this discussion months ago. In pc the the most dominant suit was the amar sentinel with hmg... then the Gal sent with hmg, then the cal and finally the min?!?!?! In pc the least efficient heavy on kills was the heavy that was actually using their factions weapon?? Now you can't give that heavy a bonus to the hmg because we'll why should the min be the only one with a bonus! ? Which I agree but this will hopefully show the reasons to lock weapons.
Let me throw out a prediction with the heavies,
You introduce the Ai lazer hmg for the amar sentinel? You worked it out that the amar with the dmg makes this weapon brilliant and balanced against shield. Then a min or cal grabs that weapon slaps on 3 dmg mods and starts melting everything shield so what so you do?? Decrease effort on dmg mods?? Well the min will always be able to bring more dmg to the table or do you decrease the efficiency with the weapon?? Which will effect the amar sentinel making it now below balance.
Now as for balancing against new players...
Let's use current situations
New uses militia
Vets use proto - officer
Now I see people saying it should be tiered
Militia vs militia... now as much as I agree we need to go deeper... we need to look into passives...
Now let's look at numbers 1-5
Basic tier is everything in skill tree locked at level 1
So if we proceed to level 5? You will only get the bonus of level 1. This then because balanced.. and also vets still get experience bonus
Advance tier is everything locked at level 3
Proto - officer is everything unlocked
BALANCE!!!!!
This sort of thing is dealt with quite well in EvE by simply making the bonuses significant enough that people just don't try using the wrong weapons on their ships. You still can of course, but it gives no benefit.
Contrast that with Dust where people use any weapon on any suit. There's for all intents and purposes no real penalty for using mismatching weapons and suits, yes there are bonuses for using the correct weapons on your suits, but they are next to useless for most people. Take for instance the "bonus" of faster reload and less kick for the RR on a CalAss suit. People just use the RR on any suit at all, without really any dramas, because it's still a powerful rifle and the slower reload and more significant kick are worth the bother. It's ridiculous. A CalAss suit is supposedly designed and optimised for RR weaponry. Just how does it make any difference??
CCP really stuffed up with bonuses on suits in Dust. They could so easily have made them meaningful, but as usual they prefer the buff-nerf cycle. I'm sure if the game continued (and perhaps it will on PC) they would nerf the RR for being so good. The problem with that for me is that I only use Caldari gear, which means that remedies for FOTM effect me directly and prejudicially. As always, CCP's answer is to use whatever does the job, which unfortunately is not an option for me.
By pandering to the people who believe that it's a good thing not to be "locked" into one race and its weapons, CCP has removed all the richness that goes with that. CCP are just dolts. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
718
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 11:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Slayer Deathbringer wrote:jade gamester wrote:We have all seen these attempts on balance...
When nerfing weapon x weapon y stands out etc etc
My is this?? On a podcast the other week I said what is true, the player Base will find a way to break it.
As of lately jump mods... the idea and design is brilliant however the player Base stuck a mass driver or plc and broke the module.
So what I suggest is a lockdown on weapons.
Gallente weaponry to be strictly used on Gallente suits. I know this takes away that feeling of "freedom" but think of it like this.
The rail rifle... so you balance this weapon to the Caldari suit?
So after some tweaks etc it's nicely balanced.
A player comes along grabs that weapon slaps it on an amar assault for example... puts on 3 dmg mods and boom it's broke.
Anyway back on task... the issue we face in dust is... "WE NEED MORE WEAPONS!!!"
Give us what we want... a mass variety.. but, make sure it's balanced for all. What I mean by that is, make sure all fractions have a shotgun orrr a variant of a cqc weapon as an example
By doing that people won't scream "omg I can't use a fricking shotgun on my amar scout"
On that note I'm going to throw something out there as a pc vet/ heavy pro. Why is it that the amar is most dominant with the hmg?? I run the min sentinel 90% of the time but I know i could do better if I run the amar. These are the reasons balance doesn't work. The hmg on the min sentinel is as balanced as it comes. You want ultimate dmg?? You sacrifice health you want speed? You sacrifice armour. Etc etc...
Me and valcore had this discussion months ago. In pc the the most dominant suit was the amar sentinel with hmg... then the Gal sent with hmg, then the cal and finally the min?!?!?! In pc the least efficient heavy on kills was the heavy that was actually using their factions weapon?? Now you can't give that heavy a bonus to the hmg because we'll why should the min be the only one with a bonus! ? Which I agree but this will hopefully show the reasons to lock weapons.
Let me throw out a prediction with the heavies,
You introduce the Ai lazer hmg for the amar sentinel? You worked it out that the amar with the dmg makes this weapon brilliant and balanced against shield. Then a min or cal grabs that weapon slaps on 3 dmg mods and starts melting everything shield so what so you do?? Decrease effort on dmg mods?? Well the min will always be able to bring more dmg to the table or do you decrease the efficiency with the weapon?? Which will effect the amar sentinel making it now below balance.
Now as for balancing against new players...
Let's use current situations
New uses militia
Vets use proto - officer
Now I see people saying it should be tiered
Militia vs militia... now as much as I agree we need to go deeper... we need to look into passives...
Now let's look at numbers 1-5
Basic tier is everything in skill tree locked at level 1
So if we proceed to level 5? You will only get the bonus of level 1. This then because balanced.. and also vets still get experience bonus
Advance tier is everything locked at level 3
Proto - officer is everything unlocked
BALANCE!!!!!
but that would keep my galmando from using a rr or my am logi from using my breach ar
I agree. It's too complicated.
All that's required are some decent bonuses for using weapons that match the suits. But to give people the option to use whatever weapon they want, there should be skills that allow them to use mismatching weapons. That's a reasonable approach to an unreasonable problem. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
718
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 11:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Raven-747 wrote:Here is what we need.
NEW DEVS
Yeah, that's right I said it. We need new devs
End of story.
New devs won't fix it, Raven, if they are told to do stupid things with the game. The design of the game has to come first. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
718
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 12:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Slayer Deathbringer wrote:Kalante Schiffer wrote:The problem was that the weapons and their respective bonuses were not good enough. A Gallente using a rail rifle still outguns a gallente using an assault rifle in CLOSE range, medium, and absolutely on long range. I said that the caldari bonus for the rr should had been reduced charge on caldari suits and high with out it. In order to make more appealing. Not a reduced recoil bonus since recoil is part of skill play, something that someone should learn to control and grow in becoming a better player. Also reducing the recoil was not going to affect the rail rifle's damage output when used on a different suit. It was and still is the better weapon to use on ANY assault suit in any multipurpose scenario with maybe the exception of shotguns in close range unless the shotgunner is a bad player. yo are right rr's,mds and jumpy need to be nerfed
No they don't. They just need better bonuses on the right suits. The problem isn't the weapons, it's the fact that they are not appropriately bonused. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
718
|
Posted - 2016.03.18 12:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:The problem was that the weapons and their respective bonuses were not good enough. A Gallente using a rail rifle still outguns a gallente using an assault rifle in CLOSE range, medium, and absolutely on long range. I said that the caldari bonus for the rr should had been reduced charge on caldari suits and high with out it. In order to make more appealing. Not a reduced recoil bonus since recoil is part of skill play, something that someone should learn to control and grow in becoming a better player. Also reducing the recoil was not going to affect the rail rifle's damage output when used on a different suit. It was and still is the better weapon to use on ANY assault suit in any multipurpose scenario with maybe the exception of shotguns in close range unless the shotgunner is a bad player.
I disagree that the RR or ARR are better than the AR or Breach or Burst AR. I've used all of them on my Gallente alt suits and they are all superior to the RR, at least in close to medium range. The ARR is at least capable of relatively rapid fire and with a short charge time is workable for CQC, but the AR with its variants is still the better weapon for anything but range. |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
723
|
Posted - 2016.03.19 10:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Raven-747 wrote:Here is what we need.
NEW DEVS
Yeah, that's right I said it. We need new devs
End of story. New devs won't fix it, Raven, if they are told to do stupid things with the game. The design of the game has to come first. Actually according to Sgt. Kirk, we do have new devs,
But they still won't fix it. Game design is what fixes it. Devs just develop the game according to the design they are given. |
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