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Maken Tosch
Dust University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.06 22:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:Or no....
Unreasonable is crying about a game that is dead, and expecting an unfair advantage in the new game. I have much more ISK, SP, and gear than 95% of the players of this game so I am losing much more than most players. I also understand that this was a game and its ending. I hope they produce a similar title in the future, but I do not expect to have an advantage over other players because I played an older title.
Grow up, and stop wanting advantages. Grind the next game like everyone else. You don't deserve and have not earned anything more than any other new player to that title has. If you feel you have you are seriously a childish neckbeard with issues.
CCP Frame wrote:Since this new game will be different from DUST 514 (although keeping many of its great parts), we will provide tiered recognition rewards to our loyal DUST customers, details to be announced.
Straight from the man himself.
It's not unreasonable to expect some reward for our efforts given what is said here.
In regards to whether or not SP transfer of any kind if reasonable depends largely on the new game that CCP is now working on. Will SP progression be harder or easier in the new game for PC? If it will be easier in terms of SP, then no it is not reasonable to expect CCP to give you even 5% of your current lifetime SP from Dust to the new game. Keep in mind that in Dust 2.5 million SP is roughly enough to max out one dropsuit class to proto levels.
If SP progression were harder, then ok it is reasonable.
Another thing that is totally reasonable is having your name cross over to the new game with you still controlling it. This is honestly the one thing I truly believe CCP is capable of accomplishing for the community.
But I will tell you one thing that is unreasonable to ask for no matter what. Asking for ISK transfer, AUR transfer*, AUR consumable transfer*, BPO transfer**, other asset transfer.
* - With how easy it is to get free AUR these days (in addition to the CCP events that pumped more of them in) and how quickly you can accumulate AUR consumables from salvage such as the 'Pyrus' Allotek Assault Rifle it is obvious that trying to tell apart the FREE AUR from the cash-purchased AUR will be extremely difficult unless CCP manages to pull some black magic out of their hats to successfully do that. Honestly, I wouldn't trust their scripts to do this. Their scripts for assets can screw things up and have in the past.
** - Even if CCP were to be generous enough to transfer BPOs, don't expect them to work the same way in the new game. For all we know, CCP might convert them to work exactly like the Eve Online BPOs which require facilities and materials to use which will definitely cost the owner of the BPO plenty of ISK for its use.
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Maken Tosch
Dust University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.06 22:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:I'd like there to be rwards based not only on Loyalty ranks but other things like joining early beta/Mordus private trials, Mystery code owners (from second decade collectors) perhaps templar code owners too, whether it be SKINs or something in merc quarters like statue/plaque.
Perhaps 5-10% of SP carried over or perhaps SP carried over could/would be related to loyalty ranks, 1% per loyalty rank for example.
I agree with all but sp..some neckbeards are 200m+ sure not a lot but still an unfair advantage..I could see all vets starting at something reasonable but not a huge advantage..perhaps the loyalty one I would be fine with that And I wonder if Imperfects will finally get their black ops lav bpo..=ƒñö Also I'm sitting at 116k aur..nothing worth my time came for me to spend it..I don't really care to get it back but it would make a difference as id actually spend money on the new game..if I lose my aur then that is fine but I won't spend anymore money on Eve fps
How much of that is FREE AUR and how much of that is cash-purchased?
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Maken Tosch
Dust University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.07 19:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:What would everyone here think if CCP let us take 5% of our current SP total into the new game?
In my case with 50 million that would be 2.5 million into the new game.
Does that sound reasonable? If someone actually gets angry enough, there is enough material for a false advertisement lawsuit on the grounds that Rouge claimed all meaningful progression would transfer during FF14. A lot of people invested heavily specifically for that reason. 5% would be a slap to the face. I imagine even 50% would. The best way to fix this situation would be to take the amount of SP someone has now, and backload passive and active SP gain for them in the future so that they acquire SP at a rapid pace until its all caught up to its original amount. That way everyone starts off on even ground, but there is a clear advantage in progression for those who already invested heavily. If someone new wants to keep pace with them, they can invest in boosters. Think of it like having triple omegas on all the time until you hit a certain amount of SP. Cuz I don't feel like digging it all up I'll just link this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2131573#post2131573For those who doubt Himi, he speaks the truth..a lot was supposed to transfer but now we're getting nothing till told otherwise =ƒÿÜ OG post https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=160232
CCP Rouge wrote:You would be able to bring your character name, applicable skills/inventory, and other elements of progression with you.
I believe the key word there is APPLICABLE.
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Maken Tosch
Dust University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.07 19:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:I think it would be refreshing starting out a new anyway; especially seeing how many new players there will be because of PC.
Just keeping character names, possibly keeping BPO's for manufacturing purposes and some kind of metal or trophy to hang on my wall or table would be fine for me.
I agree. The only thing I personally request from CCP is that I keep my name.
My assets, ISK, AUR, hell even my BPOs can all die in a fire.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.10 01:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
John Psi wrote:
Cool. Change 5% in first post to 75%. Ty.
Then watch CCP bump up the SP requirements by 75%.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.10 02:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:What if they made it like Eve where SP is only passive and they gave us SP based on if we had been active in the game since the day we started Dust.
That would be difficult to convince the player base with. Most first person shooter players want instant gratification in a match or in an open-world setting.
But then again, the vast majority of them would likely be Eve Online players who have already grown accustomed to the passive SP system for the past 13 years.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.11 04:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Two key differences.
The first is that Dust is not shutting down. It is transitioning to a new state.
That's where you're wrong.
Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=225484&find=unread
CCP Frame wrote: It is with a heavy heart that we inform you that DUST 514 will be shutting down on May 30th, 2016.
IT IS SHUTTING DOWN.
Dust is dead.
A new game, under a new name (and new trademark), with a new engine, completely rebuilt from scratch* while on a completely different platform will be born. Obviously from the ashes of Dust but it's still technically a brand new game by all definitions.
Pretty much like demolishing one's home down to the ground and building a new home on top of it. Almost nothing, barring it's own legacy and maybe our own character names, will survive.
Dust is dead.
* - Remember this is not Project Legion which is why a lot of us here refer to the new game as NotLegion. Project Legion was built using a heavily modified version of Unreal 3 Engine while NotLegion will be using Unreal 4 Engine.
PS: If you are sooooooooo adamant about taking this to court, then shut up and JUST DO IT! Do I have to post a link to shaila buf's motivational video?
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.12 01:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, I see.
As I said before, if somebody was truly angry enough to do it, there is enough material to do it. I never once said I was that angry, or cared enough. The game was trash and the next game will probably be just as bad, but with more hacking. Why would I waste my time and money just to screw with them?
I'm also not convinced it will be an entirely new game. This was already covered before. It doesn't matter what CCP claims. They say one thing and do the opposite all the time. It's why we're in this situation in the first place. If it has the exact same model as this one, it's the same thing. Changing the name doesn't make it something different. If it did, it wouldn't be relevant to any of you and they wouldn't bother giving "tiered recognition rewards" or whatever.
It will be more of the same because CCP is CCP and they can do no better.
I stopped caring about all this a long time ago when that one player (does anyone here besides me remember his name?) started going all "internet lawyer" after spending over $2000 on those AUR contact grenades just before CCP nerfed the hell out of them.
Then there is this thread from 2 years ago about someone wanting to start a class action lawsuit against CCP not long after CCP announced Project Legion.
Source: http://dustsearch.com/thread/158998/page/1#10
Let's also not forget about this internet lawyer...
http://dustsearch.com/thread/143608/page/1
THEN THERE IS ******* YELSHA JIN-MAO!!!!!
http://dustsearch.com/thread/122779/page/1
Hey Yelsha, I'm still waiting for my answer. What did you tell them exactly? Just saying. Oh, and how is that "settlement" working out for you? I'm sure you like to brag about your progress.
TL;DR: LOL @ Internet Lawyering. You're not the first one, you're not going to be the last, and I still won't hear anything about it on the news. No, I'm not talking about CNN, Fox or any of those crummy news sites. I'm talking about the Eve Online players. They know how to dig deep into the lowest pits of the fecal-filled sewers to get real news.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.12 15:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Uh no. They need to carry over every single sp on my account to the new one. We put in our time it's our sp. it's entirely fair for us to start the game with more sp because we played longer than anyone else on the original before the game started.
I don't want bpos either, I don't even have any. They need to get rid of bpos and keep the economy system where you have to purchase your own weapons and suits.
If the logic behind this is about persistence, you already left your mark. Just look at zkillboard.
https://zkillboard.com/kills/dust/
Your mark will forever be there long after Dust is shut down because the data is stored in the Tranquility server which is where Eve Online operates in and we all know Eve is not going to shut down anytime soon.
If by 'persistence' you mean assets and progress, let it be known that long ago when Dust 514 transitioned from Beta to launch (or closed beta to open beta, I can't remember exactly) a lot of us had our assets wiped out so that we start over from the beginning. It was with those who bought merc packs and then got them back (after using them up) to use again due to their promise of being refunded to them after certain wipes but that was under the condition that the player getting them back got their character wiped. If the player who bought the merc pack wanted to keep the assets and progress they gained through gameplay, they were given the choice to keep them but not get their merc pack back to use again.
I'm trying to figure out how this can be applied to character transfers for NotLegion.
Overall, SP is a rather touchy subject. Our position regarding this can vary which is now dependent on how NotLegion's progress might be. Of course SP is never going to give a player any serious in-game experience other than trying out new assets. Because of that, SP is obviously never going to guarantee that player any kills or victories. And if NotLegion goes the way of Eve Online, then you can rest assured that wearing the shiniest suit filled with faction and deadspace mods will only ensure that you end up being the laughing stock in one of The Mittani's ALOD Bingo games (Awful Loss Of the Day).
If CCP is generous enough to allow players to transfer over every single SP, don't expect the SP requirements for skill books to be the same. If it's more, I would understand why we would need that SP we keep. If the requirements are less (which is extremely unlikely) then CCP and the rest of the community will have to live with the consequence of seeing a lot of players hit the maximum SP limit far sooner than expected. The current limit in Dust is around 270 million lifetime SP. It has been reported that there is at least one player out there with close to 240 million lifetime SP. That's pretty damn close. So it would never be in CCP's best interest to lower the SP requirements for skill books.
As for assets, I say burn them all. Burn all the ISK as well.
AUR is a different matter considering that FREE AUR is being handed out even now on a daily basis. Just logging in daily gives you free AUR. Some of the CCP-hosted events handed out FREE AUR. So it would be extremely difficult and time consuming for CCP to sort out the FREE AUR from the cash-purchased AUR on a per-character basis. Sure CCP could use a script to sort it out but CCP's scripts have not been 100% accurate in some cases and I don't want that affecting AUR in case something goes wrong.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13
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Posted - 2016.03.12 16:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:OP jumping in again to say I thought this thread would get 10 responses and die, but it still keeps going.
Looks like you hit the G spot.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13219
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Posted - 2016.03.31 02:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think we can safely guarantee that the new game will be match-based in some way when it releases. Deeper integration and "open-world" stuff will probably be later. I hope you are wrong. A lobby shooter and an open world MMO type game are just too far apart. We already saw what a disaster blending the two was with Planetary Conquest. MMO mechanics have no place in a lobby shooter and lobby shooter mechanics have no place in a MMO.
Actually, they do have a place to merge well with each other if done well.
Here is an example of how I interpret to be a very good blend between lobby shooting and open world gameplay. You will notice the similarity it has with Eve Online's PvEvP mission setup where you can run an NPE mission but can get disrupted by a third party who has no business being there because somehow they scanned down your mission site.
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1RS-BGbH0RXPVPBx034j4GAInnoW8a8cBfjL5XnO2eiU/edit?usp=sharing
I made some modification to the layout recently so as to include an uninvited & disruptive 3rd party whose only focus is to steal as much loot from the contracted mercs as possible. Contracted mercs can defend themselves and the loot they salvaged should any of it get stolen which can cause the 3rd party to be flagged as criminals.
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1U6hArz8JY-QD3ZEGYxqXepq2v43ymPmP_-7eaZ9C0ic/edit?usp=sharing
Or something to that effect. It will have a sense of lobby shooting but it's still MMO in nature. Arenas where two sides compete for glory can be something that is offered as an additional option if the player is not in the mood for an MMO setting. Eve Online has a duel system in place where two players can send a duel request to each other and safely fight in high-sec without anyone interfering and without the need for any complicated war decs. Eve Online does have its own annual tournament hosted by CCP as well. In fact, one will be underway at Fanfest later this year if I remember correctly to see which qualified set of players will come out on top to determine the next emperor or empress of the Amarr Empire. The Amarr Championship.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13226
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Posted - 2016.04.01 03:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I think we can safely guarantee that the new game will be match-based in some way when it releases. Deeper integration and "open-world" stuff will probably be later. I hope you are wrong. A lobby shooter and an open world MMO type game are just too far apart. We already saw what a disaster blending the two was with Planetary Conquest. MMO mechanics have no place in a lobby shooter and lobby shooter mechanics have no place in a MMO. Actually, they do have a place to merge well with each other if done well. Here is an example of how I interpret to be a very good blend between lobby shooting and open world gameplay. You will notice the similarity it has with Eve Online's PvEvP mission setup where you can run an NPE mission but can get disrupted by a third party who has no business being there because somehow they scanned down your mission site. https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1RS-BGbH0RXPVPBx034j4GAInnoW8a8cBfjL5XnO2eiU/edit?usp=sharingI made some modification to the layout recently so as to include an uninvited & disruptive 3rd party whose only focus is to steal as much loot from the contracted mercs as possible. Contracted mercs can defend themselves and the loot they salvaged should any of it get stolen which can cause the 3rd party to be flagged as criminals. https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1U6hArz8JY-QD3ZEGYxqXepq2v43ymPmP_-7eaZ9C0ic/edit?usp=sharingOr something to that effect. It will have a sense of lobby shooting but it's still MMO in nature. Arenas where two sides compete for glory can be something that is offered as an additional option if the player is not in the mood for an MMO setting. Eve Online has a duel system in place where two players can send a duel request to each other and safely fight in high-sec without anyone interfering and without the need for any complicated war decs. Eve Online does have its own annual tournament hosted by CCP as well. In fact, one will be underway at Fanfest later this year if I remember correctly to see which qualified set of players will come out on top to determine the next emperor or empress of the Amarr Empire. The Amarr Championship. Mission running in Eve is purely open world. There is nothing match based about it, you get a mission you go out in the world to run it, and whatever happens happens. Your second document goes along the same line of being purely open world with missions that take the place of just a regular match. Maybe we have a difference of opinion of what lobby shooter mechanics are.
In a way, I do see Eve Online's mission running system as a lobby of sorts. If look at how they are offered to players who contact NPC agents of various levels (each with their own prerequisites to access them) and since the sites are only available to two groups of players, those who accept the NPC contracts and those who have the experience to scan down the mission sites without the contracts, along with each mission sometimes structured with acceleration gates to access pockets of deadspace, it's pretty obvious to me that these are similar to lobby settings. They just happen to have open-world elements added to them.
And for those who don't know anything about acceleration gates and deadspace in Eve Online:
Acceleration gates are NPC-controlled structures that function kind of like stargates but instead of jumping to another system you are flung to an area of space that can't be directly warped to (even when scanned down) without it and you can't warp to a distant point within the grid unlike the rest of the system you're in. Those areas of space are called deadspace.
EDIT: In the New Eden FPS for PC, deadspace-like areas could be simulated via the use of those nifty portals that CCP Rattati and his team were experimenting with earlier.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
13227
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Posted - 2016.04.01 03:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote: It would still technically be "open world" since you don't just open up a menu and press a button and go to battle like the current system.
Actually, Eve Online's mission system (though technically open world) does have a menu where you press a button and go to battle. It's called having a conversation with the NPC agent, accepting the contract during the conversation, and then warping your ship to the site. It's just far more involved than merely looking at a loading screen.
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