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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.18 19:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:You know Dust 514 is compatible with VR right? How?
Easy PC building guide
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XxBlazikenxX
Kylo's Fist
4
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Posted - 2016.02.18 19:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:You know Dust 514 is compatible with VR right? How? There is a youtube video, and also a thread on it, made several weeks ago showing someone using a VR headset to play Dust 514.
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.18 19:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Cat Merc wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:You know Dust 514 is compatible with VR right? How? There is a youtube video, and also a thread on it, made several weeks ago showing someone using a VR headset to play Dust 514. That doesn't mean it's a good experience.
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
3
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Posted - 2016.02.18 19:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Not at all.
VR is still impossible in First-Person Shooters.
It's impossible for all the major engines. It's not impossible, and actually totally doable if the engines architecture were different. Think about it: voxels already can give you an unimaginable level of detail without faking anything (because, as you know, much of the shiny, wonderful, super realistic graphic is actually "faked" in traditional polygon-based engines thanks to normal maps, POM, depth etc) in real time. This technique paired with procedural generation can possibly (and probably will) give us great near photorealistic VR experiences without the computational costs of a traditional polygon based engine- Need to be said, anyway, the whole thing is still experimental, there are a few guys on the internet that claims they already managed to reduce the memory needed for a single voxel to render to "less than 1 bit", which is great news if it is actually true. The first real game that will use one of these kind of mixed voxels + massive procedural generation will be No Man's Sky. But voxels can be much more high-res than that ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXm5JWys55o The problem isn't photorealism, the problem is movement. Moving without you actually doing so physically cause a disconnect in your inner ear that causes motion sickness. Until we figure out ways around that, or stimulate the inner ear in some next gen designs, we can't make traditional FPS, only shooting gallery type FPS.
Oh, I must have misunderstood the whole thing then.
Anyway, there's also the problem that VR takes up really a lot more resources to achieve the same graphics level. Which wouldn't be a problem at all in voxel-based engines with nowadays mid-range computers (even ps4/xboxone)
take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM]
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.18 20:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Cat Merc wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Not at all.
VR is still impossible in First-Person Shooters.
It's impossible for all the major engines. It's not impossible, and actually totally doable if the engines architecture were different. Think about it: voxels already can give you an unimaginable level of detail without faking anything (because, as you know, much of the shiny, wonderful, super realistic graphic is actually "faked" in traditional polygon-based engines thanks to normal maps, POM, depth etc) in real time. This technique paired with procedural generation can possibly (and probably will) give us great near photorealistic VR experiences without the computational costs of a traditional polygon based engine- Need to be said, anyway, the whole thing is still experimental, there are a few guys on the internet that claims they already managed to reduce the memory needed for a single voxel to render to "less than 1 bit", which is great news if it is actually true. The first real game that will use one of these kind of mixed voxels + massive procedural generation will be No Man's Sky. But voxels can be much more high-res than that ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXm5JWys55o The problem isn't photorealism, the problem is movement. Moving without you actually doing so physically cause a disconnect in your inner ear that causes motion sickness. Until we figure out ways around that, or stimulate the inner ear in some next gen designs, we can't make traditional FPS, only shooting gallery type FPS. Oh, I must have misunderstood the whole thing then. Anyway, there's also the problem that VR takes up really a lot more resources to achieve the same graphics level. Which wouldn't be a problem at all in voxel-based engines with nowadays mid-range computers (even ps4/xboxone) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rek6ygqwy-k^ closeups of the huge detail voxels can reach, the guy claims he's doing so on a XMG P722 notebook assembled in 2012. Voxels aren't anything new, they've been around for a long while. There are limitations with voxel engines, like animations, that need to be figured out before we use them for actual games, and not just fancy tech demos.
As for the VR rendering requirements, they're not THAT extreme. Next gen of graphics cards will put the minimum spec for a good VR experience at the 200$ mark for a graphics card, compared to 300$ today. There are also more novel ideas, like foveated rendering: http://www.roadtovr.com/hands-on-smi-proves-that-foveated-rendering-is-here-and-it-really-works/
That's already working today, and is likely to be implemented in the next iteration of the Oculus Rift and HTC Vive.
Easy PC building guide
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XxBlazikenxX
Kylo's Fist
4
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Posted - 2016.02.18 20:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Cat Merc wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:You know Dust 514 is compatible with VR right? How? There is a youtube video, and also a thread on it, made several weeks ago showing someone using a VR headset to play Dust 514. That doesn't mean it's a good experience. But it does mean that it is possible.
CEO of Kylo's Fist // Pub Chat: The First Order
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
19
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Posted - 2016.02.18 21:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Cat Merc wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Cat Merc wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:You know Dust 514 is compatible with VR right? How? There is a youtube video, and also a thread on it, made several weeks ago showing someone using a VR headset to play Dust 514. That doesn't mean it's a good experience. But it does mean that it is possible. Everything is possible, the question is if it will make you vomit after 10 minutes.
Easy PC building guide
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Heimdallr69
Negative-Feedback.
6
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Posted - 2016.02.18 21:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
It would be stupid to do that..a desktop that they say can run VR will be spendy and then the VR is supposedly like $600 Dust2.0 won't be worth that investment |
Skihids
Random Gunz The-Office
3
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Posted - 2016.02.18 21:58:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP could make it an option, though they would have to program movement to reduce traditional strafing to reduce VR nausea. I haven't seen anyone walk sideways outside a gym and it should be easy enough to walk forward while twisted to the left or right instead.
I'll let you know how it works in June. My Rift should arrive by then and I expect Star Citizen to be supporting it natively around then. |
XxBlazikenxX
Kylo's Fist
4
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Posted - 2016.02.18 23:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Cat Merc wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:There is a youtube video, and also a thread on it, made several weeks ago showing someone using a VR headset to play Dust 514. That doesn't mean it's a good experience. But it does mean that it is possible. Everything is possible, the question is if it will make you vomit after 10 minutes. Apparently not, because the person doing the VR testing on Dust 514 did fine.
CEO of Kylo's Fist // Pub Chat: The First Order
Join us in our quest for all of Molden Heath!
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
3
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Posted - 2016.02.19 00:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: Voxels aren't anything new, they've been around for a long while. There are limitations with voxel engines, like animations, that need to be figured out before we use them for actual games, and not just fancy tech demos.
Voxels disappeared because the storage memory you needed for the time (and maybe even now) was way too much, while polygons could achieve similar and sometimes better results with a fraction of the size, and polygons were also easier to deal with when it comes to texturing allowing to save tons of memory on flat(-ish) shapes.
Sparse voxel octrees can be animated. And it is actually more convenient now since you don't really have to pay attention to the topology of the model since it's going to be animated even better in some cases. (still, it might get a bit weird at very low level of details, optimization is still needed, indeed)
The only drawback there has ever been in voxels is the hard drive memory they occupy: way too much. That's why in my first post I wrote that there are people claming they could reduce the size to less than 1 bit per voxel, which would be amazing indeed.
Anyway, using eye tracking to render with high details only a portion of the screen is a pretty smart move
Edit:
The problem with voxel is: there is nothing specifically designed to deal with them for what concerns games. Literally, nothing.
take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM]
#PortDust514
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aussy sledge
ScReWeD uP InC Devil's Descendants
62
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Posted - 2016.02.19 00:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Not at all.
VR is still impossible in First-Person Shooters.
I feel like I keep repeating myself in each of these new threads, but there's no solution for the fact that the VR headset is telling your brain you're moving while your inner-ear and all your other senses are telling it you're stationary. get an office chair.. You'd probably get dizzy though going as fast as your clone goes.. Or get off your fat ass and get on a treadmill while playing vr lmao
I got that cansur b0ss. always recruiting,
Keeping it ScReWeD uP
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Mobius Wyvern
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
7
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Posted - 2016.02.19 01:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Not at all.
VR is still impossible in First-Person Shooters.
I feel like I keep repeating myself in each of these new threads, but there's no solution for the fact that the VR headset is telling your brain you're moving while your inner-ear and all your other senses are telling it you're stationary. Yep totally impossible. Thats why people are already playing FPSs in VR using a phone and a PS3 controller. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc18t1pZRFMJust because people like me and you get motion sick easier than others does not mean that CCP will not gladly try it. Trust me, they aren't.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
12
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Posted - 2016.02.19 02:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
In order for VR to be viable in FPS, VR would need to evolve from "sit in place and look around" to "full-body immersive experience."
This would require everything to be mapped to your body in an apparatus that allowed you to run, to aim, to do everything so your mind fully engages while receiving feedback from the environment.
In VR space a sitting situation, like a fighter cockpit, a driver's seat, etc. Is much easier to immerse and not cause motion sickness. People who get motion sick from flight simulators and car simulators tend to be the same people who get carsick as a passenger in a car. Not many people actually have that problem, comparatively.
Even the movie rollercoasters at universal studios have a motion effect that twigs the inner ear to over-react. The old back to the future cars had maybe 20-30 degrees of tilt angle, but with camera work your body can be tricked into thinking you are in a literal nosedive.
You cannot do that in VR for an FPS which is why there is a problem. People get sick trying to VR FPS because there is no feedback that tells you that you're tilting, falling, hitting the ground, looking behind you, aiming, firing. The disconnect between visual input and physical feedback is what makes people sick, and why FPS in VR is considered a sh*t idea.
Imagine a gigantic, shiny bug zapper.
Embrace your destiny.
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Medical Crash
Systematic Engineers Unlimited
506
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Posted - 2016.02.19 03:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
jade gamester wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Not at all.
VR is still impossible in First-Person Shooters.
I feel like I keep repeating myself in each of these new threads, but there's no solution for the fact that the VR headset is telling your brain you're moving while your inner-ear and all your other senses are telling it you're stationary. I don't want a sore neck from turning around because of scouts all the damn time :, ( that's wat..... she said?
My YouTube Channel
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LOOKMOM NOHANDS
634
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Posted - 2016.02.19 06:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:LOOKMOM NOHANDS wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Not at all.
VR is still impossible in First-Person Shooters.
I feel like I keep repeating myself in each of these new threads, but there's no solution for the fact that the VR headset is telling your brain you're moving while your inner-ear and all your other senses are telling it you're stationary. Yep totally impossible. Thats why people are already playing FPSs in VR using a phone and a PS3 controller. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc18t1pZRFMJust because people like me and you get motion sick easier than others does not mean that CCP will not gladly try it. Trust me, they aren't.
It is CCP. The obvious choice is the opposite of the smart choice.
Just saying. |
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