DUST Search - The wait for EVE:fps (PHOENIX)

Vell0cet wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

It really depends on what they mean by starting from scratch. If they're actually starting from 0--opening a blank text editor and starting from a blank screen, then we're looking at years before there is anything playable (pre-alpha), and probably a couple more after that to have something that's got most of the worst bugs worked out.

Well, they're starting with the Unreal 4 Engine which has a pretty solid baseline setup for a number of games, FPS included. So a lot of the very very basic **** is already done, it's just a matter of modifying it and optimizing the engine so it can run properly and look the way they want it to.

From scratch as in, building an entire engine from the ground up? God no.

From scratch as in not using existing DUST code but utilizing what Unreal 4 has to offer? Yes. (Thank god)

If they're not using any of the existing DUST code, I'm pretty sure that would guarantee this new game never gets shipped. I agree they should reuse as much from other developers as possible (like the Unreal stuff) and not modify/overcomplicate things that work, but if they're planning on a similar skill point system (just as a random example) then they'd be crazy not to port over the pieces that work from the existing DUST code. A lot of the messiness in our code represents bugs that got fixed, each one could be days of someone at CCP's life to identify the edge case, document it, reproduce it, find where in the source the problem is occurring and then writing a fix for it.

Flat out deleting that stuff is throwing all of that work away. It's the biggest mistake a software company can make. The correct approach is to study the existing code, understand where the edge cases come from, bring over/port the parts that work, and refactor the ones that don't.

DUST has a severe case of software rot.
I'm sure there are things they can salvage, but it's best if they don't touch most of it with a ten foot pole.

With respect, I think you're completely wrong. How can they possibly learn from their mistakes that way? If you bring in a new team of people, what's to stop them from repeating all of the same mistakes if they don't learn from the past? Why should we expect the development process to be any faster this time around than last time? I agree there's probably tons of rot in DUST's code, but it's critical to understand what went wrong and why to have any hope of doing better the second time around.

Congressional staffers are more intelligent than the people I find on these forums.


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Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2016.02.07 19:01:00 - [1] - Quote Am I seriously the only one thinking they'll have a playable demo at fanfest, with an invite-beta in early summer? Congressional staffers are more intelligent than the people I find on these forums.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2016.02.07 20:53:00 - [2] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I think that may be a bit overly ambitious. I don't expect them to have something ready for public consumption come fanfest. Videos? Trailers? Absolutely, but I doubt there will be much actual game to play AT fanfest, much less a beta following soon after. Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote: I'm under the impression we will have an alpha this year. That's all I am expecting, given the size of the team. I didn't realize they had commented on the size of the team? This is my reasoning behind it: Valkyrie is in postproduction-polish stage. Gunjack has been out and about since what, October? That took some bodies from Shanghai. Fanfest isn't until April, and CCP stopped interacting with dust since early November. It took a handful of devs to hyper customize UE3+ for the legion-prototype, with a rough "playable" scenario along with screen mockups and background garbage 6 months. We're looking at a "confirmed" 3 months, while having a pretty good guesstimation that they took whatever was left on dust over to (Phoenix) along with whoever else was there idle after Gunjack and more than likely any spare Valkyrie devs that are not needed in the final stages prior to release. Along with the 30+ million that was in CCP's rnd budget for 2015, i highly doubt Gunjack was more than peanuts, abd if Valkyrie cost that much to develop, well CCP will be going broke on that failed gamble. And i think it was Darth Cabonite that alluded to a swelled shanghai office due to Gunjack itself over in the future of dust thread, where he laid out the main departments of Shanghai. Itd also follow dusts original launch scheme, demos at fanfest, playable beta at E3. There's too many similarities and familiar courses of action going on for me not to be polishing my tinfoil. Sorry guys. Congressional staffers are more intelligent than the people I find on these forums.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2016.02.07 22:43:00 - [3] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Vell0cet wrote: It really depends on what they mean by starting from scratch. If they're actually starting from 0--opening a blank text editor and starting from a blank screen, then we're looking at years before there is anything playable (pre-alpha), and probably a couple more after that to have something that's got most of the worst bugs worked out. Well, they're starting with the Unreal 4 Engine which has a pretty solid baseline setup for a number of games, FPS included. So a lot of the very very basic **** is already done, it's just a matter of modifying it and optimizing the engine so it can run properly and look the way they want it to. From scratch as in, building an entire engine from the ground up? God no. From scratch as in not using existing DUST code but utilizing what Unreal 4 has to offer? Yes. (Thank god) If they're not using any of the existing DUST code, I'm pretty sure that would guarantee this new game never gets shipped. I agree they should reuse as much from other developers as possible (like the Unreal stuff) and not modify/overcomplicate things that work, but if they're planning on a similar skill point system (just as a random example) then they'd be crazy not to port over the pieces that work from the existing DUST code. A lot of the messiness in our code represents bugs that got fixed, each one could be days of someone at CCP's life to identify the edge case, document it, reproduce it, find where in the source the problem is occurring and then writing a fix for it. Flat out deleting that stuff is throwing all of that work away. It's the biggest mistake a software company can make. The correct approach is to study the existing code, understand where the edge cases come from, bring over/port the parts that work, and refactor the ones that don't. DUST has a severe case of software rot. I'm sure there are things they can salvage, but it's best if they don't touch most of it with a ten foot pole. With respect, I think you're completely wrong. How can they possibly learn from their mistakes that way? If you bring in a new team of people, what's to stop them from repeating all of the same mistakes if they don't learn from the past? Why should we expect the development process to be any faster this time around than last time? I agree there's probably tons of rot in DUST's code, but it's critical to understand what went wrong and why to have any hope of doing better the second time around. CAT FIGHT! Congressional staffers are more intelligent than the people I find on these forums.