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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
264
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Posted - 2016.01.25 13:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
It comes down to this:
There are probably 100 + AV players for every 1 dedicated pilot.
CCP barely updates their game since they've moved funds elsewhere in the company. As such, they can only afford to make small, targeted changes. Also, they want to keep the game profitable, because for some reason people still spend money here.
So, they appeal to the larger groups, rather than balance as a whole. The chances you'll see any kind of AV nerf or ADS buff are basically nill, if anything they'll buff AV to "handle" tanks while keeping the other vehicles as is.
All dropships need is their native resists back, ADV and PRO hulls, or a total reworking of swarm mechanics which will never happen because it requires programming. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
266
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Posted - 2016.01.25 16:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Richard Gamerich-R wrote:A good Python can resist to around 6 voley of proto swarm. (enhanced heavy shield + booster + hardener + shield regulation level 5)
An incubus around 4.
In any case it's enough to kill the AV. If you need to run away, push L1 and put your ADS to the vertical. (not horizontal it's low speed)
However invisible swarm is a real problem. The issue with swarms is that they're undodgeable and track for 400 meters. Over those 400 meters you can easily get pinged by any other AV, and then eat those swarms that you can't dodge.
That will always be the point of contention between swarms and pilots. Pilots will always feel ripped off because someone pointed up in their general direction, pulled the trigger, and went about their merry way while collecting 75 to 225 WP for their "efforts".
And that will never change, because DUST no longer receives actual development, just stat shuffles.
Also, many swarmers run commando, and well, you try killing a commando that's hitting you with pro / officer swarms. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
288
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Posted - 2016.01.26 05:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's sad and frankly shameful how quickly CCP gave up on trying to balance vehicles by introducing ADV and PRO variants. Basically they didn't get the HAV rebalance perfect the first time and simply gave up because it was too hard for them.
As if not having Minmatar and Amarr wasn't bad enough, we can't even get full representation of the 50% that actually made it into the game.
And to think, this game was envisioned to have massive vehicle warfare at one point. It's so sad how far the reality of DUST has fallen from the vision that once drove it. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
293
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Posted - 2016.01.26 14:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote:Devadander wrote:While I agree that thumb skill plays no part in swarm operation. Sp is a major factor. Swarms are useless until proto, and I would argue, reload five. And I would argue further, damage mod five, and procalmando. ADS's cost way more SP just to be barely effective only some of the time, whilst costing more isk and being much harder to generate isk with (through WP) in battle than an AV fit. You raise a good point that most people skim right over. WP and payout is usually **** for a dropship pilot (unless you run AV incubus). Swarms generate boatloads of WP if there are vehicles around, and if you actually kill them you also get way more ISK.
So, it costs less ISK, takes less effort, and earns you far more. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
294
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Posted - 2016.01.26 15:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Abraxis Mangelor wrote:If you can't fit a basic heavy armor plate on your Incubus, without a fittng mod, you need skills. Until then, your gonna die.. Heavy plate used to be good but anti armor AV does so much damage now you're better off with a light plate and a hardener so you can AB out as soon as you hear AV. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
295
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Posted - 2016.01.26 16:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Murder Medic wrote:Abraxis Mangelor wrote:If you can't fit a basic heavy armor plate on your Incubus, without a fittng mod, you need skills. Until then, your gonna die.. Heavy plate used to be good but anti armor AV does so much damage now you're better off with a light plate and a hardener so you can AB out as soon as you hear AV. You can use two complex light reps and a harder or a pg upgrade complex plate and rep. If you don't have the sp invested basic still does fine but fit the hvy rep and stay on your toes. If you're using a missle on it consider that is not is primary function and you're gimp ing your fit. Python actually tanks av better believe it or not and the bonus is much better for taking out said av. You should have both ads set up and learn both. If you insist on running missiles on your incubus just remember that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage but it can still be done. I've been flying for 4 years, preaching to the choir ;) I don't run Missile bus anymore because there just isn't enough resist unless like you say, you run dual hardener and I HATE that fit because I hate downtime. I prefer to constantly bring the fight even if I die because I prefer excitement and fun over not losing ISK. Plus, what's the point of flying if you aren't constantly challenging yourself against superior odds?
I have vehicles maxed 100% and wouldn't have it any other way.
On the rare occasions I play it's almost always the same. I play solo so it changes my tactics, however I always spawn AV incubus, clear turrets and try to deny vehicles, then if there isn't much vehicle pressence I switch to Python to harass infantry and be a glorified street sweeper. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
296
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Posted - 2016.01.26 16:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:I meant X2 rep and one hardener :) I'm in the same boat. Longevity over tank.
It's hard to try to explain that av right now isn't that op if you take the time to learn and have proper fits. I just want to be rude at this point. I hope my posts provided good information for them though. I'm notorious for arguing for the sake of argument :p I will always be a bit butthurt about swarms just because of how they function, and how we get stuck without ADV or PRO hulls, but it is what it is.
If I can fly solo against full stacked proto AV squads and not die or only die once, then it's certainly possible. Out of every role in this game, ADS benefits hands down the MOST from having a squad to back you up. Being able to drop people on tower nests or to call out AV that's hiding in cover is invaluable, and not to mention having scans on the ground.
I hate having to run the second I hear AV but honestly, that's how it should be. Good ADS pilots can clean house on infantry if left alone, which is why I LOVE AV incubus. Nothing makes me happier than giving AI Pythons hell
I'll probably test out dual rep again at some point, I just like having the extra tank because I always seem to get one shot by damage stacked rail tanks when I least expect it lol. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
296
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Posted - 2016.01.26 16:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote: Swarms cannot kill a ads before an ads kills then unless you make a mistake. I agree with most everything you've said before but I have to partially disagree here.
Commandos hopping around can easily survive if you don't land direct hits and the impact from their swarms make it really difficult to land that direct shot sometimes. Also as I'm certain you're plenty familiar with, infantry often don't render till around the 150 meter mark. If you know where the nest is you can blindly shoot down into it, but a lot of times it's just not practical to engage a heavy / commando swarmer.
Which is fine, you're spot on that the moment you hear / are hit by AV you need to burn out and reassess. Sometimes it's just as simple as leaving their nest alone and harassing other points on the map till they try to chase you, then you just go to the other side of the map lol.
More people need to run rail LAV with two AV in it, easily the most frustrating thing to deal with as a pilot other than another skilled AV incubus.
Demandred Moores wrote:I loaned my ps3 to a friend's who's broke resent lyrics but I'll have it back soon. On the rare occasion one of us is on we should try to sqd up. Rare is the day I see a reasonable ads or av guy. My main is DUST Fiend, I'm not sure what chats I'm in anymore but feel free to send a message on the off chance we're on at the same time. I never mic up though, so squading with me is a bit of a drag lol. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
297
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Posted - 2016.01.26 17:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote: back to fallout 4 So much Fallout 4 @_@
I should have never gotten it for PC, modding is a disease....a beautiful, wonderful, sensual disease...
Summa Militum wrote:Why don't people who fly Dropships do the same? Because flying is the only reason the game is even worth turning on in the first place. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
304
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Posted - 2016.01.26 18:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
MrShooter01 wrote:Murder Medic wrote:
More people need to run rail LAV with two AV in it, easily the most frustrating thing to deal with as a pilot other than another skilled AV incubus.
I've got a Saga with two complex rail damage mods and a proto small rail, every now and then I'll deploy it and run around the quiet parts of the map its ridiculous how much damage it can put out, most dropships and even some tanks die before they figure out wtf is shooting at them Unfortunately it also dies the instant its spotted Yea, that's definitely the biggest issue, they're frail as hell and really expensive :/
We dropship pilots ***** a lot but anyone who wants to be an LAV driver is just laughed at by CCP.
I really wish the original vision for this game had come to pass, vehicle warfare is so glorious. |
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
311
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Posted - 2016.01.26 23:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
CrotchGrab 360 wrote:if a railgun tank can kill me from twice the distance that I can use my swarms, then swarms do not need a nerf. This is highly relevant to AV vs ADS balance, thank you. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
325
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Posted - 2016.01.27 14:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:2) Cover? In mid-air? Kind of defeats the point of gunship don't you think. It's a dropship, not a gunship.
90% of your survivability is derived from your mobility. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
330
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Posted - 2016.01.27 15:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:There is nothing you can "git gud" for against 4 volleys of officer swarms. I'm not even a dropship pilot. You want to know why I'm posting here then? Because I know what dropship pilots have to deal with. One of my corpmates is a dropship pilot and he only complains about two things. Swarms, and installations. I'm one of the original and long time haters of swarms, but even I have to scratch my head at this.
Are you saying on person put out 4 volleys from their officer swarm? In that case I ask, why in gods name did he stick around for a full clip, a reload, and a renewed volley?
If you're talking about 4 players pulling out officer AV and coordinating an attack on the dropship, then to put it simply, you're doing your job. One player is forcing 4 to work in unison and to not be taking points. And if there timing isn't perfect you can jet out of there and possibly duck around buildings or simply outpace swarms further behind you.
And lastly as someone with 0 SP in infantry even I will admit, sometimes you're just outmatched. Sometimes the opponent has too strong of an AV pressence, and you have to switch it up. You can't win every fight, but if you're forcing 4 players to chase you around then you've already done your job. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
330
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 15:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote: The thing is. This ties into bad matchmaking. So what if those guys are spending their time trying to take you down? Why does it matter if your team is already redlined by the 12 other people?
Right, but we're discussing balance here.
Matchmaking is it's own issue. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
335
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Posted - 2016.01.27 17:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Waves of opportunity would be an excellent system if the redline didn't exist. Having a risk free safe haven to retreat to is the only reason it caused imbalance. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
337
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Posted - 2016.01.27 18:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:Murder Medic wrote:Waves of opportunity would be an excellent system if the redline didn't exist. Having a risk free safe haven to retreat to is the only reason it caused imbalance. You think the red line is a safe haven. But it isn't. The many Thale's/Symb's I've killed is a testament to that. It might not be a safe haven for infantry but it sure as hell is for vehicles. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
337
|
Posted - 2016.01.27 18:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:Murder Medic wrote:Soto Gallente wrote:Murder Medic wrote:Waves of opportunity would be an excellent system if the redline didn't exist. Having a risk free safe haven to retreat to is the only reason it caused imbalance. You think the red line is a safe haven. But it isn't. The many Thale's/Symb's I've killed is a testament to that. It might not be a safe haven for infantry but it sure as hell is for vehicles. Nope. That's why I have a Sica with a fuel injector and 4 complex damage mods. Which is still useless vs dropships and most tanks that know how to drive. All they have to do is drive as well as or better than you for 15 seconds and they win. Also your paper cannon will likely explode to AV on your way if your opponent is playing the game. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
339
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Posted - 2016.01.27 20:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Soto Gallente wrote:Besides. 1 AVer shouldn't be able to kill a vehicle by himself, it should take teamwork. The most 1 AVer should be able to do is scare them off. Well if flown correctly 1 AVer will basically never kill you unless you've already taken a good chunk of damage. The only exception to this is damage stack rail tanks, but that doesn't really count since it's a tank. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
360
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Posted - 2016.01.29 14:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Sqd up sometime man I just got my ps3 back from my friend I loaned it to. I want to make some demonstration videos when I can convince my friend that records to get on. I record but don't mic up, I've been putting out some ADS vids the past couple days so let me know if you're on just in case I am too. I've got no problems recording some matches
Youtube
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
401
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Posted - 2016.01.30 17:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
ADD gah wrote:I found a fit that is amazing!!! I'm able to stay alive for so much longer.
( Basic heavy shield extender, complex shield hardener, complex afterburner, complex pg upgrade, and XT missiles ) Personally I switch the basic extender with an advanced and the complex AB with advanced. Generally you only need the AB in short bursts, whereas you will ALWAYS need more shields.
Youtube
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