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HOLY PERFECTION Fourth Nature 179	Posted - 2015.12.23 14:50:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not going to write a big paragraph, but don't RR seem a little Overpowered. I mean they seem to kill fine close, and long range. Plus they EAT any suit up. If I charge, follow me. If I retreat, kill me. If I die, revenge me. I'm really hard headed
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 566	Posted - 2015.12.23 14:53:00 - [2] - Quote Satan's spawn shows no mercy HMG is my first love SR my Sancha
Mr.Pepe Le Pew The Tasteless Gentlemen 345	Posted - 2015.12.23 14:55:00 - [3] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: I'm not going to write a big paragraph, but don't RR seem a little Overpowered. I mean they seem to kill fine close, and long range. Plus they EAT any suit up. CCP's answer to OP Rail rifles: Nerf Combat rifle.
Satanic Slave Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2015.12.23 14:55:00 - [4] - Quote LOL KILLZ wrote: Satan's spawn shows no mercy I suppose.... "It's like a porcupine with down syndrome... you know it wants hugs but they don't know the pain they cause..."
Justice Darling Horizons' Edge 110	Posted - 2015.12.23 14:56:00 - [5] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: I'm not going to write a big paragraph, but don't RR seem a little Overpowered. I mean they seem to kill fine close, and long range. Plus they EAT any suit up. well try being on the other end of that, the damn thing jumps around more then a mexican jumping bean, only works up close cuss at 5 feet it don't matter how much it jumps, your right in their face, but on the other hand at mid range your boned if you don't do controlled fire at about 4 to 8 rounds a set due to how much peps cried about it in the first place It's like my mother always told me! Rana Rana Rana Rana Rana Rana , and codeine and god dammed it, you little mother!
Mr.Pepe Le Pew The Tasteless Gentlemen 345	Posted - 2015.12.23 15:00:00 - [6] - Quote Justice Darling wrote: HOLY PERFECTION wrote: I'm not going to write a big paragraph, but don't RR seem a little Overpowered. I mean they seem to kill fine close, and long range. Plus they EAT any suit up. well try being on the other end of that, the damn thing jumps around more then a mexican jumping bean, only works up close cuss at 5 feet it don't matter how much it jumps, your right in their face, but on the other hand at mid range your boned if you don't do controlled fire at about 4 to 8 rounds a set due to how much peps cried about it in the first place This ^ guy obviously doesn't know how to use RR's.
Justice Darling Horizons' Edge 110	Posted - 2015.12.23 15:09:00 - [7] - Quote Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: Justice Darling wrote: HOLY PERFECTION wrote: I'm not going to write a big paragraph, but don't RR seem a little Overpowered. I mean they seem to kill fine close, and long range. Plus they EAT any suit up. well try being on the other end of that, the damn thing jumps around more then a mexican jumping bean, only works up close cuss at 5 feet it don't matter how much it jumps, your right in their face, but on the other hand at mid range your boned if you don't do controlled fire at about 4 to 8 rounds a set due to how much peps cried about it in the first place This ^ guy obviously doesn't know how to use RR's. well try it with a state rail first 4 rounds on a hip fire first vs proto's hip fire and we are talking hug world of change, as I don't run proto in pubs as that is a douche thing to do and its funny when i kill a proto with a militia or apex suit in any case. -»\_(pâä)_/-» It's like my mother always told me! Rana Rana Rana Rana Rana Rana , and codeine and god dammed it, you little mother!
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Imperium Eden 4	Posted - 2015.12.23 15:15:00 - [8] - Quote Most weapons eat any suit up. When your total HP is about 500 to 800, even doing 10 or 15% less damage is only going to amount to a few extra bullets and most weapons are high rate of fire. And in any game, weapons with long range and high rate of fire are always a monster to balance. The limiting factor with Rail Rifles is the charge up time. After about 1/4 a magazine, the thing will be jumping quite a bit. This means, if you need the accuracy, stopping and restarting. This creates like a half second gap that drastically reduces your DPS. At long range, you can generally get through 3/4 of a magazine before it is unbearable but the person should either be dead by then or you should just reload anyway. But at close range, weapons that don't have that DPS gap are far more devastating. With how incredibly devastating Assault Rifles are at close range, if you set that as the standard, the Rail Rifle is less "fine" and more "slightly useful." Just like how if you were to set the Rail Rifle's range as the standard for Assault Rifle: less fine and more barely/slightly useful. I think it is fine at the moment, maybe even lowering the recoil if ADS'ing. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
HOLY PERFECTION Fourth Nature 179	Posted - 2015.12.23 15:27:00 - [9] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Most weapons eat any suit up. When your total HP is about 500 to 800, even doing 10 or 15% less damage is only going to amount to a few extra bullets and most weapons are high rate of fire. And in any game, weapons with long range and high rate of fire are always a monster to balance. The limiting factor with Rail Rifles is the charge up time. After about 1/4 a magazine, the thing will be jumping quite a bit. This means, if you need the accuracy, stopping and restarting. This creates like a half second gap that drastically reduces your DPS. At long range, you can generally get through 3/4 of a magazine before it is unbearable but the person should either be dead by then or you should just reload anyway. But at close range, weapons that don't have that DPS gap are far more devastating. With how incredibly devastating Assault Rifles are at close range, if you set that as the standard, the Rail Rifle is less "fine" and more "slightly useful." Just like how if you were to set the Rail Rifle's range as the standard for Assault Rifle: less fine and more barely/slightly useful. I think it is fine at the moment, maybe even lowering the recoil if ADS'ing. it can wrech my heavy faster than another heavy can If I charge, follow me. If I retreat, kill me. If I die, revenge me. I'm really hard headed
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Imperium Eden 4	Posted - 2015.12.23 15:49:00 - [10] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: it can wrech my heavy faster than another heavy can What are the factors? I don't mean this as a statement of incitement. If it is out of the HMG's range, then obviously it is going to win. Taking it to the extremes would be "The Nova Knife kills the Sniper" or "The Sniper beats the Nova Knife." If they are both in range, from what I have experienced it before, it comes down the Rail Rifle getting the drop (IE, people only realize they are getting shot when they start to return fire rather than when half their HP is gone.) From a DPS perspective: Proto HMG DPS: 598.4 vs Shields, 931.04 vs Armor (30 meters) Damage per clip: 7480 HP Proto RR DPS: 357.92 vs. Shields, 503.08 vs. Armor (75 meters) Damage per clip: 2171.4 HP But here is the thing with it is interesting: at 40 meters the HMG is only 43% effective while the RR is fine 100% at 75 meters (97 meters to finally hit 43%). Average DPS between Shield and Armor for both? 764.72 and 430.5. 430.5 / 764.72 = 56.3% more average DPS. At 38 meters and 39 meters, the damage modifier is 58 or 53. So at 39 meters, you are doing less DPS than a RR would be. The bullet spread is also a factor but that is a lot harder to try to figure out. I would state that it boils down to this: "If the Rail Rifle is killing the same target faster than an HMG could, it is down to the range being unfavorable for the HMG." "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"

Daemonn Adima Eternal Beings 711	Posted - 2015.12.23 17:16:00 - [11] - Quote I've played a match where literally the entire enemy team was using RRs. I recorded the killfeed for a minute for proof. There's no gun as widely used across all suits like the RR is, that alone should tell you something.
DJINN Heartreaper Negative-Feedback. 46	Posted - 2015.12.23 17:39:00 - [12] - Quote And the cycle continues
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 1	Posted - 2015.12.23 18:04:00 - [13] - Quote I've found that using the rail in 4 pulses gives me all the dps I need. 4-5 three heartbeat holds allows you to apply your damage very nicely. Some do escape, many become assists. But my desired result (another dead red) is achieved 90% of the time. Cal-ass V seals the deal. I can use 2-3 pulses on my assault fits for same results. I've even heard the other rails follow suit upon hearing me and seeing me get kills. All my corpies pulse the rails. It just works. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet RUST415 677	Posted - 2015.12.23 18:31:00 - [14] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: I'm not going to write a big paragraph, but don't RR seem a little Overpowered. I mean they seem to kill fine close, and long range. Plus they EAT any suit up. Between range and damage I've complained about that gun forever. I've finally sold out and I'm speccing into it.
Justice Darling Horizons' Edge 113	Posted - 2015.12.23 18:54:00 - [15] - Quote Daemonn Adima wrote: I've played a match where literally the entire enemy team was using RRs. I recorded the killfeed for a minute for proof. There's no gun as widely used across all suits like the RR is, that alone should tell you something. Well as of late I started using the laser rifle as there is no bounce and it does a undefined amount of DPS once it heats up and I've notice its way easier to kill someone with the laser vs the RR, although the RR does have the upper hand when it comes to close range for spray and pray vs the laser as the bounce tends to help the RR vs hurt it, at times! It's like my mother always told me! Rana Rana Rana Rana Rana Rana , and codeine and god dammed it, you little mother!
Justice Darling Horizons' Edge 113	Posted - 2015.12.23 18:58:00 - [16] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: HOLY PERFECTION wrote: I'm not going to write a big paragraph, but don't RR seem a little Overpowered. I mean they seem to kill fine close, and long range. Plus they EAT any suit up. Between range and damage I've complained about that gun forever. I've finally sold out and I'm speccing into it. It's not really being a sell out, as the RR has the upper hand on armor, and not everyone spec's into shields, I've found the Rail sucks on high shield users but there are so few of them 9/10 will be armor based and loss on that front! It's like my mother always told me! Rana Rana Rana Rana Rana Rana , and codeine and god dammed it, you little mother!
sir RAVEN WING RabbitGang 5	Posted - 2015.12.23 21:18:00 - [17] - Quote You ever going to give it up, HOLY? Do you even use it regularly? That's a serious question. I've been using it since Week 1 (I hesitated at first because it acted differently from my then beloved AR.) It's has been overpowered before, I know this. However because it killed you does not make it overpowered. What Heavy are you using? Amarr? Bad idea. Gallente? You probably need to stay away from open spaces. Minmatar? Get out of there. Caldari? Either you're incompetent, laggy, attack by other things as well, or some more things. =ƒç+=ƒç¬ "Time waits for no man." Death may be rendered obsolete to us, but time shall still have it's investment back.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 584	Posted - 2015.12.23 23:54:00 - [18] - Quote Just to clarify, are you talking Assault Rail Rifle (ARR) or the (Breach) Rail Rifle (RR)? or both for that matter? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. #PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 216	Posted - 2015.12.24 06:51:00 - [19] - Quote Daemonn Adima wrote: I've played a match where literally the entire enemy team was using RRs. I recorded the killfeed for a minute for proof. There's no gun as widely used across all suits like the RR is, that alone should tell you something. Oh great, so now CCP is gonna nerf the RR, ARR and maybe even the SR because they are FOTM. That means people like me who only use rail guns on my Caldari suits are gonna be disadvantaged. The answer to my wailing will no doubt be that I should use anything that works, rather than restricting myself to just Caldari weapons. This ridiculous concept that everyone just uses anything has created a FOTM nightmare in EvE and now looks to do the same in Dust.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 216	Posted - 2015.12.24 06:54:00 - [20] - Quote Devadander wrote: I've found that using the rail in 4 pulses gives me all the dps I need. 4-5 three heartbeat holds allows you to apply your damage very nicely. Some do escape, many become assists. But my desired result (another dead red) is achieved 90% of the time. Cal-ass V seals the deal. I can use 2-3 pulses on my assault fits for same results. I've even heard the other rails follow suit upon hearing me and seeing me get kills. All my corpies pulse the rails. It just works. Good idea. I've thought of that myself, but never tried it! Nice to know it works, and now I'll have to give it a go. I've dealt with the bouncing by using ADS more than I probably should, but if this works I could go back to hip firing more.

Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 216	Posted - 2015.12.24 06:58:00 - [21] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Just to clarify, are you talking Assault Rail Rifle (ARR) or the (Breach) Rail Rifle (RR)? or both for that matter? The ARR is definitely not as bad as the RR. I count that as being because the charge up time is much less and the more rapid, less powerful shots have a smoothing effect. The RR is just ridiculous at least for hip firing. More than 5 shots, and it's jumping around so much I could be hitting anything and I wouldn't know. Using ADS seems to quieten it down. I've sort of developed a concept that RR is for use through sights and hip firing is only for very close range, ARR is for hip firing and you only use the sights (iron sights) for extreme distance. That all seems to work quite well.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 216	Posted - 2015.12.24 07:03:00 - [22] - Quote Justice Darling wrote: well try it with a state rail first 4 rounds on a hip fire first vs proto's hip fire and we are talking hug world of change, as I don't run proto in pubs as that is a douche thing to do and its funny when i kill a proto with a militia or apex suit in any case. Well, now that's interesting. I tend to run with whatever RR or ARR is on the BPO suit that I'm currently using, with damage modifiers to increase the lethality of them. Most of the time that means it's either the State Rail Rifle on the Rasetsu, or the Militia Assault Rail Rifle on the MLT fits. I never considered that it might be more preferable to put an advanced or proto rifle on these suits rather than just up the damage mods. How much better are they really? I guess I just probably have to try it myself. I can run any of the RR or ARR alternatives, I just have avoided it because of the cost.
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 63	Posted - 2015.12.24 07:43:00 - [23] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: I'm not going to write a big paragraph, but don't RR seem a little Overpowered. I mean they seem to kill fine close, and long range. Plus they EAT any suit up. "seem a little overpowered" "seem to kill fine close and long range" How are they fine and OP at the same time. Rail takes skill to hit with at a distance or at least some good controlled fire. I refrained from using a combat rifle for the past 3 months and threw one on just a couple hours ago and went 14-0 with it like I was long range shotgunning scouts, combat rifles are good against shield suits, they **** armor, ACR can eat people alive but the modded CR that so many scrubs run these days (ITS OBVIOUS BTW! EVERYONE KNOWS WHEN YOU DO IT! GIT GUD OR GIT GONE) is 3 alex's hmgs firing at you at one time and not missing a shot. The CR is ten times as OP as the rail. The rail jumps, cant be used with a mod and fires much slower. The CR has zero protection against modding and has AR grade hipfire. Have you been hit by a minmando with a modded CR? There is no surviving. You just think rail rifles are OP because they can outgun anything at range other than a sniper or a laser, but what you dont notice is that the enemy literally CANT fire the whole clip in his rail rifle without stopping, well he could, but hed be shooting some spot in the sky by the time the last bullet left the barrel. "Militia Internet, Proto Lag" -Zandor Suzuki "To be fair"- viper xsniper "Americ*nt"- TheD1CK
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 64	Posted - 2015.12.24 07:53:00 - [24] - Quote HOLY PERFECTION wrote: it can wrech my heavy faster than another heavy can Then you're just a terrible heavy. Flat out. You're standing out in the open where you don't need to be, trying to hit him with your assault hmg like its a rail rifle. You cant and arent supposed to compete with an RR at RR range in a sentinel suit. Only heavies out in the open get wrecked by rails and heavies out in the open are just careless heavies. And don't tell me you get wrecked up close by a rail because every single time I ever come across a rail within hipfire distance when I'm running heavy, the RR dies. The hipfire and dps for him are terrible compared to my HMG's. Things you should learn from this. 1) Sentinels are for CQC and you should stay very near cover, you're best inside a building or around a corner, never stray into open lines of site in your sentinel. 2) Any time you die from a rail rifle in a sentinel suit it is YOUR fault. Rails should never take out your heavy unless you're being careless 3) If you want to roam in open areas get out of your sentinel suit or run 3 kin cats and a cardiac with a precision mod an alex's or AHMG and a scout with a reptool trailing you. You're welcome. "Militia Internet, Proto Lag" -Zandor Suzuki "To be fair"- viper xsniper "Americ*nt"- TheD1CK
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.12.24 09:11:00 - [25] - Quote ask your mom what she prefers, 1inch or +12inches lol? I like the RR because the ladies love it. it hits harder and deeper
Ice Royal Glantix 0.P. 346	Posted - 2015.12.24 10:25:00 - [26] - Quote So what stat do you want nerfed exactly? It has the lowest dps of the four main rifles and their variants, so a damage nerf would be uncalled for. In terms of range, that is where the Rail Rifle is supposed to shine. A range nerf would put it around the Scrambler's range, taking away its one advantage. Rail Rifles are easy to counter: Get close. If you can't get close, relocate out of the user's line of sight. If none of that works, your enemy has fairly out played you. In terms of rifle balance, I believe the only one that needs to be touched is the Scrambler Rifle, but that is for another topic. "Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential." Glantix / Ice
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 218	Posted - 2015.12.24 11:28:00 - [27] - Quote After the discussions in this thread, I thought I should try advanced RRs and ARRs to see what the real difference was. I am used to using either the Militia Assault Rail Rifle on my Frontline-CA BPO or the State Rail Rifle on my Hawk, Rasetsu and Samurai, with two basic damage modifiers on all but the Hawk. With the augmented versions of these State LP suits, I've increased the damage modification but kept the State Rail Rifles. I'd never tried using an ADV rifle instead, so I did that today. The RR (SB-39) still seemed to kick like a mule, but did appear to do more damage than a State Rail Rifle with equivalent damage mods. The SL-4 was significantly better than the MLT version, seemed more accurate, packed more punch, and was easier to use. I'm convinced that at least for rail rifles, ARRs, etc, the ADV versions are significantly better than the slightly increased DPS would have you believe. They're only 5% more DPS than their basic or MLT versions, but definitely seem to be much more deadly. I presume that the Proto versions, the Kaala and Ishukone, would be that much better again. I have a Gallente alt. I thought it would be a good idea to see if the same rules applied to Assault Rifles and their variants. I've never compared the basic AR with its upmarket cousin, the GEK-38. I've used the ADV version of the Burst Assault Rifle and the Tactical Assault Rifle and the basic versions of the Breach Assault Rifle and Assault Rifle, but never used the ADV versions of all three in comparison with each other. Today I did, and I was astounded. The difference, particularly between the GEK-38 and the basic AR was revolutionary to me. The AR is a good rifle, but the GEK-38 just is much better - more vicious, I think I could say. It could have been psychological, knowing that I was using this rifle, which is well known in the game, but it somehow also feels more powerful - perhaps the dual shock feedback is increased with this rifle? Anyway, yes, I've proven to myself that the ADV versions of at least the Caldari and Gallente rifles are definitely far better than the basic versions, not just in DPS but also usability and accuracy. I know the accuracy is supposed to be the same between the MLT and ADV versions, but in actual use, my experience is otherwise....
ANON Cerberus TerranProtossZerg 979	Posted - 2015.12.24 12:02:00 - [28] - Quote Ok who am I? Nobody really just someone who has played this game for nearly 3 years ish. So please take my comment with a pinch of salt... I think weapon balance is the best it has been for a very long time. YES RR`s (specifically Assault Rail Rifles) do seem to probably be the weapon of choice but I see kills with all weapons in game. Honestly I cant think of many things that are under powered at this point.... Maybe the flaylock and ion pistol? (Although I am sure some would disagree) My biggest gripe with DUST weapons right now is the range or lack of range. I like to use my Laser Rifle but I do find that the RR`s have soemwhat comparable range so I do have to be careful engaging around the 80-100 meter mark as RR`s can and will kill at that range. (Getting kills with the LR past 100 meters gives the enemy so much time to react as at that range it is very hard to STAY accurate as people move about.)


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