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byte modal
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Posted - 2015.12.21 03:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Haven't read through being on mobile, but IMHO nothing should transfer. I would hope SP gain would conform to EVE standards. Period. And so called "BPOs" will function as they should---as simple recipes for consumable gear only, that can continuously be manufactured provided you have or are willing to purchase the resources on an open market. Maybe give us those BPOs that were bought with AUR but as true BPOs and not the eternal gear they are now. Eternal BLUE PRINTS and nothing more.
These changes alone would go a long way to reducing the rhetoric from either side of the forum balance wars.
Aur would be a nice transfer but if push comes to shove, the reality is we're paying for immediate gratification. Not stock-holder investments for future dividends with interest. Buying a movie ticket gives me 1.5 hours entertainment. It does not give me stock in the sequel nor does it justify an assumed sense of entitlement from the sequel's developer.
Corps and contacts would be good and practical too.
Just my 0.02ISK.
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byte modal
343
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Posted - 2015.12.21 05:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:I don't get why a direct SP transfer would be a bad thing. What does it matter if vets have a SP advantage at launch or 2 years down the road? If the ported game can expect to draw in new players 2 years down the road when we all have button of SP, it can expect to draw them in when we have buttons of SP at launch. This is an important point, one of the crucial make-or-break issue for Dust2. Really the question of whether sp or ISK should transfer is moot, the real question is: 'will CCP be willing and able to design a game that preserves a quality player experience in the face of sp and ISK imbalances?'. If they can achieve such a lofty goal then transferring vet's progress will do no harm, if they can't then Alena has predicted the future of Dust2. It's a problem common to all persistent mmorpgs, and if CCP is going to solve it they're going to have to step up their game-design game. We're having an in depth conversation about this topic on the Biomassed Podcast right now. www.biomassed.net, currently live but recording will be up in the next day or two. My personal thoughts: It's an understandable concern to want players to start off on fairly even footing if ported to PC. If ported to PC< it will undoubtedly have a very large chunk of EVE players trying it out day 1. Subjecting them to heavily leveled DUST players on day one will not encourage them to stick around. At the same time, the nature of MMOs is such that as a game goes on for a long time, veterans drop off and must be replaced with new players to keep player counts up. Those players will ALWAYS be subjected to highly leveled veterans, this is completely unavoidable. Therefor the mentality that "We must keep SP balanced so players dont get stomped" simply doesn't hold water in the long run. This is why NPE is ESSENTIAL and something that Dust has largely failed at thus far.
That being said, I think that there are two options that are pretty solid for me personally.
- Veterans receive a flat % booster that runs until they have re-earned their old SP. This means that everyone starts at 0SP but vets have the ability to re-earn the legacy they have developed over the years
- Veterans receive a % of their existing SP and start with that amount going into the game. It means their legacy persists in a more direct fashion, but is not overpowering at the launch of the game.
A 1:1 SP transfer is probably not the wisest choice. While not ideal for veterans, it may not be entirely responsible in the context of a large surge of new players due to a re-launch on EVE:Online's native system. Also don't take my personal opinions as my way of saying "OMG IT HAS TO BE THIS WAY", the whole point of this thread is to have a conversation with everyone about what is important to them and what would be an appropriate way to handle character transfers and I certainly don't speak for everyone.
Arguments are based on very specific assumptions that 1) SP will be implemented as it currently exists in DUST, and 2) there still will be no level-based division of players (i.e., SEC space).
If SP is not restructured to points from time rather than the current points per achievements, then **** it. Transfer everything because it's only a matter of time (a short time at that) before we each cap anyway. Long term be damned. New player experience be damned as well through eternal protostomps.
If players aren't divided by choice into EVE security space, then **** that too. That SP gap will never be bridged and the problems we have now will only be perpetuated....
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
344
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Posted - 2015.12.21 07:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:byte modal wrote:
Arguments are based on very specific assumptions that 1) SP will be implemented as it currently exists in DUST, and 2) there still will be no level-based division of players (i.e., SEC space).
If SP is not restructured to points from time rather than the current points per achievements, then **** it. Transfer everything because it's only a matter of time (a short time at that) before we each cap anyway. Long term be damned. New player experience be damned as well through eternal protostomps.
If players aren't divided by choice into EVE security space, then **** that too. That SP gap will never be bridged and the problems we have now will only be perpetuated....
Yes that is something we also mentioned on the show. All of this assumes the same level of progression that we currently have in a would-be port. If it's an entirely different system then the SP conversation is kind of pointless. I do think that a PvE mode is also a quintessential part of a proper NPE experience as well as taking a good hard look at progression between tiers of gear as well as within levels of skills as well. But that's really another discussion entirely.
Agreed that PVE technically is another topic; however, progression doesn't happen in a vacuum, nor can the discussion of it with regards to peripheral affects such that proper EVE-like security divisions has on it, to include PVE. You can't have one without the other.
And to be quite honest (if not blunt) to assume progression will remain in it's current form within a port (or wtfever you want to call it), kind of defeats the purpose of a legit discussion. You have restrictively defined the parameters of the "discussion" to a single expectation, and all suggestions from that point are confined to that one specific assumption. Pretty much anything that doesn't conform to those parameters become null and useless. The remaining options tabled are bandaids at best over and already proven broken system.
What was the point of this thread again?
Sorry if I seem pissy. Same discussion from closed beta was ignored then, yet here we are wondering why those predictions came to be, while looking to do it all over again now. Then we'll all pretend to be surprised when it repeats itself in another 2 years, post-port. Frustrating to see short-sighted gains over long term considerations. That's not at you, just the mentality In general.
At least you got another bump. For great justice.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
344
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Posted - 2015.12.21 07:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
To add to my previous ranting:
If the systems were redesigned, then I'd be just fine with SP porting over. Why? Because redesign (including PVE) would place newbs into adequately tiered and restricted security space. Got 120k SP? Keep it and head on out to 0.0 space to take full advantage. Otherwise CONCORD will restrict you from tier-camping ala protostomping 1.0 newbs.
That's why you cannot in good faith have one conversion without considerations to another. Topics actually feather each other.
=/
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
344
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Posted - 2015.12.21 08:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:byte modal wrote:To add to my previous ranting:
If the systems were redesigned, then I'd be just fine with SP porting over. Why? Because redesign (including PVE) would place newbs into adequately tiered and restricted security space. Got 120k SP? Keep it and head on out to 0.0 space to take full advantage. Otherwise CONCORD will restrict you from tier-camping ala protostomping 1.0 newbs.
That's why you cannot in good faith have one conversion without considerations to another. Topics actually feather each other.
=/ I don't disagree with you so no need to get pissy. And if you want to attach conditions of a redesign or not to you opinion that's fine. I simply didn't want the thread to turn into several tangental discussions about specifics of PvE game modes and arguing over meta level lockouts ect. No you can't design in a vacume, but I guess my intention of the thread was for a general feedback and feel about a specific facet of a topic and no so much an in depth look at potential design points. Just trying to avoid a thread derailment. But hey if your feedback is for example "If like SP to transfer directly, but only if x, y, and z happen. But if those things can't happen then we should do something else with the SP transfer" thats perfectly fine in my book. That was the kind of feedback I was looking for.
Fair enough.
I hope that my earlier post was clear in that my frustration is not at all directed towards you. If not, then let me state it again: my pissiness is not at you ;) but more the build up to where the game is now.
Hopefully my arguments stand on their own and are not too far off to have derailed your thread. My apologies if that was the perceived direction. It was not my intent.
I do not support SP or BPO transfer unless the following conditions apply: SP only if NPE and security space segregations are applied for newbs to start and progress accordingly through tiered space, preventing vets from camping newb space at least by way of gear-based advantages; and BPOs are converted to actual EVE-style BLUE PRINTS rather than perma-gear.
So yes.
If (conditions x and y are met){
transer SP and BPOs;
}else{
Nope;
}
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
346
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Posted - 2015.12.21 17:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
DJINN Heartreaper wrote:Krixus Flux wrote:I don't expect anything to transfer.
I think if they were to port to PS4, for the health of the community, its best that everyone starts fresh. Maybe keep your ISK...maybe. SP, get rid of it. BPOs, get rid of it. The current community will be upset but we have to consider the future and the welcoming of new community members and the fairness thereof. It's a bit self handicapping to move it to PS4, everyone keeps what they've gained from PS3, thus providing a substantial skillgap between those who didn't play on PS3 and those who have. Which would leave to "Dust Gods" starting genocide on the noobs. They would leave the game and go back to Battlefront, COD, and PS2. While the same guys here in this forum now will remain, clamoring for CCP to do something to change that.
If we as a community want the livelihood of this game to be healthy by moving it to PS4, then we should consider sacrificing what we have gained to make sure everyone gets a equal standing and chance to become great in Dust. This would also point back to CCP in ways of advertising. Dust needs to be advertised on PS4 greatly. It could work in their favor as a console version of Star Citizen. Though I understand that CCP might not want to get that Gameloft "copy high profile games to gain crowds" title, it would be best since console gamers would probably make the comparisons.
As a nod to PS3 vets, maybe offer PS3 vet dropsuits or you keep your ranks. Let's just accept that PS3 Dust was a major beta test. Let's sacrifice the SP if they move to PS4. And what about the money we spent on this "10 year plan"? Idgaf about my 80m sp or 600m isk or officer and bpo's but I do care what I bought with real money..aur/boosters..if that doesn't get refunded then I'm out..ya'll can get screwed but I won't again
Entitled much?
You paid for boosters in DUST, and you got the boosted earn to get that 80m SP. You're using it (assuming you still currently play), so money well spent. Money spent for immediate gratification is just that. It's not a ticket for perpetual self-entitled interests.
Take advantage while both DUST and the PS3 are still online. You did not, however, buy stock in next-gen development, no matter what you assume. Period. If CCP has the notion to give back in this "port" as a gesture of gratitude, then bonus. Otherwise, there is no reason for that assumption, or whining.
Just sayin.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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byte modal
349
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Posted - 2015.12.21 22:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
DJINN Heartreaper wrote:byte modal wrote:DJINN Heartreaper wrote:Krixus Flux wrote:I don't expect anything to transfer.
I think if they were to port to PS4, for the health of the community, its best that everyone starts fresh. Maybe keep your ISK...maybe. SP, get rid of it. BPOs, get rid of it. The current community will be upset but we have to consider the future and the welcoming of new community members and the fairness thereof. It's a bit self handicapping to move it to PS4, everyone keeps what they've gained from PS3, thus providing a substantial skillgap between those who didn't play on PS3 and those who have. Which would leave to "Dust Gods" starting genocide on the noobs. They would leave the game and go back to Battlefront, COD, and PS2. While the same guys here in this forum now will remain, clamoring for CCP to do something to change that.
If we as a community want the livelihood of this game to be healthy by moving it to PS4, then we should consider sacrificing what we have gained to make sure everyone gets a equal standing and chance to become great in Dust. This would also point back to CCP in ways of advertising. Dust needs to be advertised on PS4 greatly. It could work in their favor as a console version of Star Citizen. Though I understand that CCP might not want to get that Gameloft "copy high profile games to gain crowds" title, it would be best since console gamers would probably make the comparisons.
As a nod to PS3 vets, maybe offer PS3 vet dropsuits or you keep your ranks. Let's just accept that PS3 Dust was a major beta test. Let's sacrifice the SP if they move to PS4. And what about the money we spent on this "10 year plan"? Idgaf about my 80m sp or 600m isk or officer and bpo's but I do care what I bought with real money..aur/boosters..if that doesn't get refunded then I'm out..ya'll can get screwed but I won't again Entitled much? You paid for boosters in DUST, and you got the boosted earn to get that 80m SP. You're using it (assuming you still currently play), so money well spent. Money spent for immediate gratification is just that. It's not a ticket for perpetual self-entitled interests. Take advantage while both DUST and the PS3 are still online. You did not, however, buy stock in next-gen development, no matter what you assume. Period. If CCP has the notion to give back in this "port" as a gesture of gratitude, then bonus. Otherwise, there is no reason for that assumption, or whining. Just sayin. Immediate gratification? Lol you're stupid and yes I'm entitled it's who I am...I've been in dust for almost 4 years..I'm one of the first people to play this game and you're just someone who doesn't understand anything.."imdediate" =ƒñö All I asked was for my boosters that came with the merc pack and aur returned...they can take my isk and so idgaf Just sayin
Forgive me. I mistyped when introducing my reply. I should have written "petulant much?"
You are entitled because you are you? "I've been in DUST bla bla..." yes, yes. Same here. If time in is the measure of understanding, then you got nothing there. Unfortunate for some, time in to a video game does not equal understanding, reason, logic, consideration, or perception of reality. You bought boosters and AUR. If you've used them, then you've exhausted their value already. You have 80m SP, all the gear and, I would hope, wins to show for it in trade. Grats to you for stepping up and getting ahead ...in DUST. You have already claimed the value of the product you purchased. IF you haven't spent the AUR and boosters from the Merc Pack you bought, then what are you waiting for? Click that lil button, soldier!
Silly response is silly. imdediate, indeed. +1 for making me giggle? honest engine. You get a like. 
kitten bacon taco (nom)
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