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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.20 10:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is really linked to the article I wrote last night, but I wanted to start a thread out of curiosity for how people feel about a certain aspect of said article.
Just assume that you're in my world of Boundless Optimism, and a port happens, may that be on PS4 or PC or whatever.
What would you want to transfer over from this game to the next?
ISK
AUR
SP
LP
Faction Standing
DK
BPOs
SKINs
Gear/Suits/Assets
ect.
What do you think would be appropriate for CCP to allow to be transferred?
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.20 10:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Luther Mandrix wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:This is really linked to the article I wrote last night, but I wanted to start a thread out of curiosity for how people feel about a certain aspect of said article. Just assume that you're in my world of Boundless Optimism, and a port happens, may that be on PS4 or PC or whatever. What would you want to transfer over from this game to the next? ISK AUR SP LP Faction Standing DK BPOs SKINs Gear/Suits/Assets ect. What do you think would be appropriate for CCP to allow to be transferred? that list looks right
Well Im more asking, of those things, what would you personally feel are essential to be transfered over?
In your case would you want all of it? I'm really just asking people out of curiosity about what their expectations are.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.20 10:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
DogeGode Master wrote:Everything would be appropriate, however it wouldn't necessarily be wise.
Pretty much my thoughts. Which is why I think the community needs to have a discussion about what is truly important to them so we can set reasonable expectations for both ourselves and for CCP.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.20 20:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:
It is simple. People have spent real money on ISK so if any asset transfers then ISK must also transfer.
Where do you buy ISK with real money?
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.20 21:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
For those of you requesting SP to transfer.
Would a system that started you at 0SP but offered accelerated SP generation that drew from your old SP pool be acceptable?
For example say you have 20M SP right now
At the port you would get x1.5 SP generation. That x0.5 pulls from your stored 20M SP. So Once you earned 40M SP in the port, you would have consumed your stored 20M SP, and would have a total of 60M SP.
After that you would drop down to x1.0 generation like everyone else. Effectively starting everyone off on the same foot, but giving you the option to re-earn your SP so your time investment in DUST is not completely lost.
Personally speaking I think this is pretty acceptable and would be a decent compromise between the two camps.
Props to Vrain and others I've talked to before about this for the idea
Vrain Matari wrote:
SP - We steal a page from 'Age of Elyria': Vets get skill-wiped but....in Dust2, they relearn at double speed until they hit their original sp level pre-migration.
Vrain Matari wrote:
Good stuff Pokey.
Posted all philosophical-like on your Biomassed blog article.
I saw that, you know quality feedback like that makes me happy 
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.21 04:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:I don't get why a direct SP transfer would be a bad thing. What does it matter if vets have a SP advantage at launch or 2 years down the road? If the ported game can expect to draw in new players 2 years down the road when we all have button of SP, it can expect to draw them in when we have buttons of SP at launch. This is an important point, one of the crucial make-or-break issue for Dust2. Really the question of whether sp or ISK should transfer is moot, the real question is: 'will CCP be willing and able to design a game that preserves a quality player experience in the face of sp and ISK imbalances?'. If they can achieve such a lofty goal then transferring vet's progress will do no harm, if they can't then Alena has predicted the future of Dust2. It's a problem common to all persistent mmorpgs, and if CCP is going to solve it they're going to have to step up their game-design game.
We're having an in depth conversation about this topic on the Biomassed Podcast right now. www.biomassed.net, currently live but recording will be up in the next day or two.
My personal thoughts:
It's an understandable concern to want players to start off on fairly even footing if ported to PC. If ported to PC< it will undoubtedly have a very large chunk of EVE players trying it out day 1. Subjecting them to heavily leveled DUST players on day one will not encourage them to stick around.
At the same time, the nature of MMOs is such that as a game goes on for a long time, veterans drop off and must be replaced with new players to keep player counts up. Those players will ALWAYS be subjected to highly leveled veterans, this is completely unavoidable. Therefor the mentality that "We must keep SP balanced so players dont get stomped" simply doesn't hold water in the long run. This is why NPE is ESSENTIAL and something that Dust has largely failed at thus far.
That being said, I think that there are two options that are pretty solid for me personally.
- Veterans receive a flat % booster that runs until they have re-earned their old SP. This means that everyone starts at 0SP but vets have the ability to re-earn the legacy they have developed over the years
- Veterans receive a % of their existing SP and start with that amount going into the game. It means their legacy persists in a more direct fashion, but is not overpowering at the launch of the game.
A 1:1 SP transfer is probably not the wisest choice. While not ideal for veterans, it may not be entirely responsible in the context of a large surge of new players due to a re-launch on EVE:Online's native system.
Also don't take my personal opinions as my way of saying "OMG IT HAS TO BE THIS WAY", the whole point of this thread is to have a conversation with everyone about what is important to them and what would be an appropriate way to handle character transfers and I certainly don't speak for everyone.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.21 06:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
byte modal wrote:
Arguments are based on very specific assumptions that 1) SP will be implemented as it currently exists in DUST, and 2) there still will be no level-based division of players (i.e., SEC space).
If SP is not restructured to points from time rather than the current points per achievements, then **** it. Transfer everything because it's only a matter of time (a short time at that) before we each cap anyway. Long term be damned. New player experience be damned as well through eternal protostomps.
If players aren't divided by choice into EVE security space, then **** that too. That SP gap will never be bridged and the problems we have now will only be perpetuated....
Yes that is something we also mentioned on the show. All of this assumes the same level of progression that we currently have in a would-be port. If it's an entirely different system then the SP conversation is kind of pointless.
I do think that a PvE mode is also a quintessential part of a proper NPE experience as well as taking a good hard look at progression between tiers of gear as well as within levels of skills as well. But that's really another discussion entirely.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.21 07:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
byte modal wrote:To add to my previous ranting:
If the systems were redesigned, then I'd be just fine with SP porting over. Why? Because redesign (including PVE) would place newbs into adequately tiered and restricted security space. Got 120k SP? Keep it and head on out to 0.0 space to take full advantage. Otherwise CONCORD will restrict you from tier-camping ala protostomping 1.0 newbs.
That's why you cannot in good faith have one conversion without considerations to another. Topics actually feather each other.
=/
I don't disagree with you so no need to get pissy. And if you want to attach conditions of a redesign or not to you opinion that's fine. I simply didn't want the thread to turn into several tangental discussions about specifics of PvE game modes and arguing over meta level lockouts ect.
No you can't design in a vacume, but I guess my intention of the thread was for a general feedback and feel about a specific facet of a topic and no so much an in depth look at potential design points. Just trying to avoid a thread derailment.
But hey if your feedback is for example "If like SP to transfer directly, but only if x, y, and z happen. But if those things can't happen then we should do something else with the SP transfer" thats perfectly fine in my book. That was the kind of feedback I was looking for.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.21 13:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
@byte no worries man. Beleive me when I say I started this whole conversation due to CCPs refusal to speak about the future of DUST and my intense frustration because of it. It shouldn't take someone outside of CCP or a Non CPM to start a conversation like this because they're not restricted with an NDA. It's BS.
And I don't think you were trying to derail the thread but you know how people can get once they veer too off topic. It's always difficult to find that balance of focus without going off the deep end with scope creep (I'm terrible with it myself).
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.21 20:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
It would be hilarious if they allowed people to keep their ISK but then allowed ISK transfers from EVE. Would basically make whatever amount saved up in DUST completely inconsequential.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.21 21:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:DJINN Heartreaper wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:It would be hilarious if they allowed people to keep their ISK but then allowed ISK transfers from EVE. Would basically make whatever amount saved up in DUST completely inconsequential. Everything would be really expensive for non EvE players lmao This simply cannot be allowed to happen. EVER! Dust must never have a linked economy with EVE online. EVE players like myself could literally inundate entire corporations and alliances with enough ISK to sustain themselves for ever functionally killing the aspect of assets actually mattering.
Sounds a bit similar to the issues we have with how ISK is distributed in DUST now. Many are so obscenely rich that cost is non issue.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2015.12.22 01:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
benandjerrys wrote:True Adamance wrote:DJINN Heartreaper wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:It would be hilarious if they allowed people to keep their ISK but then allowed ISK transfers from EVE. Would basically make whatever amount saved up in DUST completely inconsequential. Everything would be really expensive for non EvE players lmao This simply cannot be allowed to happen. EVER! Dust must never have a linked economy with EVE online. EVE players like myself could literally inundate entire corporations and alliances with enough ISK to sustain themselves for ever functionally killing the aspect of assets actually mattering. Wasn't that the original point?
To be fair there could be a system where EVE players could reward DUST players in a way not tied to ISK. The point was to have a mutual relationship between the two games, but that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be through the transfer of ISK.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
7
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Posted - 2016.01.01 04:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Reign Omega wrote:If its just a port, transfer all my shxt. If it's an upgrade or rebuild of the game, I don't need anything but my name. If it's a rebuild, I could live with this too, tbh, but i do want to bring one thing with me: My Exile assault rifle - she's got a lotta notches carved in her now.
Right? There's some straight up emotional attachment to mine.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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