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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.20 18:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Purchased items
BPO's
SP (unallocated perferably, especially if the skill system is adjusted, which it should be)
Corps (obviously, considering they are built into the system)
Everything else can be liquidated and/or removed. ISK can be earned again, quickly at that for many (especially if some systems are improved to where profits can be gained more frequently, like for example, for piloting). The rest of that will take years upon years, if not never be able to be obtained ever again, which will **** a lot of people off unnecessarily.
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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.20 18:40:00 -
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Twelve Guage wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Well you should keep in mind that migrating to a new platform would also come with a LOT of new stuff to skill into I would imagine. Vehicles, suits, weapons, you name it. Hell, maybe we might even go back to the modular weapons concepts of 2006? Like this or this. I think with all our assets intact we'll still have quite a lot of new stuff to work towards and more climbing to do. Oh my you do know how to distract girl. Nevertheless a mountain of sp going into what should be the revamp form of dust514 isn't the way we need to go. Everyone wants a port but no one wants to sacrifice anything. Going in whit god mode level of sp will only make the new community hate the vet player and make them question why CCP thought this was a good ideal. There is already a large discrepancy between new player and vets now. No need to carry that over to a new system and build.
This argument is silly. What, you want a reset every time they revamp the game? Additionally, this will change jack squat in three years time; all you're doing is delaying the eventual future.
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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.20 20:23:00 -
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Twelve Guage wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Twelve Guage wrote:Oh my you do know how to distract girl. Nevertheless a mountain of sp going into what should be the revamp form of dust514 isn't the way we need to go. Everyone wants a port but no one wants to sacrifice anything. Going in whit god mode level of sp will only make the new community hate the vet player and make them question why CCP thought this was a good ideal. There is already a large discrepancy between new player and vets now. No need to carry that over to a new system and build.
This argument is silly. What, you want a reset every time they revamp the game? Additionally, this will change jack squat in three years time; all you're doing is delaying the eventual future. Really you can't see how having multiple people starting with 60m to 200m sp at the launch of a supposably new game(and I lot of people who haven't played this game will view it as a new game) wouldn't have any negative effect on people with starting with something like 500k sp. Please by all means elaborate more on this. I would like to understand your thought process better. Edit: do you also think sp should be unallocated for those coming from the ps3 to the pc/ps4?
This changes nothing down the line. What if a new wave of bluedots joins the game 3 years down the road, say there's another revamp? Reset everyone again?
How about instead of doing things that will do nothing but delay the eventual pissing off of bluedots, and the pissing off of vets that'll actually play and pay for the game once it's ported, situations are created that can, like in EVE, allow for the vets and bluedots to exist without such unnecessary things to happen?
As an aside, this is exactly why Dust failed like it did. Every change was not a change to fix or improve anything, but a change to either appease or delay the complaints. There has been very few attempts to actually go at the core of what issues are, which is one of the primary reasons why this port conversation is so important; we don't need just a port, we need a revolution.
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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.20 20:26:00 -
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Daemonn Adima wrote:DogeGode Master wrote:Everything would be appropriate, however it wouldn't necessarily be wise.
ISK would be the least thing to be worried about because of how easily it's generated, LP and DK as well. AUR is real life money, so definitely transferable. I don't how it would be toxic/unsafe to transfer faction standing, bpos, and skins. Gear can be wiped since it's like isk, excluding aurum items of course.
SP is a tough one, yes players did in fact work for it, but it may completely destroy the NPE without proper balancing of matches. Probably not a complete transfer, unless it becomes feasible contextually, at least some percentage should definitely be transferred without a doubt. Except in new Dust they'll probably have meta/tier locks as EVE does now. Bout friggan time.
EVE doesn't have hard meta locks however, but proper limits. You can do everything in a **** fit technically, you just aren't going to get anything done, and no real profits will be made. However, if you can make it work, you can do those things, which is why EVE's fluid system works so well.
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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.20 20:28:00 -
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Kierkegaard Soren wrote:Honestly? Nothing. If Dust ports, it simply HAS to be a new game, a direct sequel I suppose, where the lore, ethos and general concepts of Dust have been faithfully kept (but with heavy tweaking; so many mistakes were made during the initial designing of this game), but essentially everyone starts off as equals. At the most, I'd want my name and my corp badge, for old times' sake. Oh, and AUR too, but that's a no brainer. Fundementally though, if we let this community slide all of its assets, ISK and, most crucually, XP across in any form at all then we're killing the port off at birth. We are a community of careless, cynical arseholes and we *will* protostomp all-comers from day one if given the opportunity to, and be damned the NPE. I know it's a lot to ask, but if we want the port to thrive it can't have at its core a ready-made unassailable elite of veterans who have all the money, all the experience and all the game know-how at their disposable from launch day. We've got to learn from our mistakes and give everyone an equal chance to survive and thrive.
Considering there's a lot of assets that have been bought, you can't just say "fck it all, burn it!". Additionally, what will getting rid of SP do but **** of people who has earned it? Nothing.
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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.20 20:34:00 -
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True Adamance wrote:Kierkegaard Soren wrote:Honestly? Nothing. If Dust ports, it simply HAS to be a new game, a direct sequel I suppose, where the lore, ethos and general concepts of Dust have been faithfully kept (but with heavy tweaking; so many mistakes were made during the initial designing of this game), but essentially everyone starts off as equals. At the most, I'd want my name and my corp badge, for old times' sake. Oh, and AUR too, but that's a no brainer. Fundementally though, if we let this community slide all of its assets, ISK and, most crucually, XP across in any form at all then we're killing the port off at birth. We are a community of careless, cynical arseholes and we *will* protostomp all-comers from day one if given the opportunity to, and be damned the NPE. I know it's a lot to ask, but if we want the port to thrive it can't have at its core a ready-made unassailable elite of veterans who have all the money, all the experience and all the game know-how at their disposable from launch day. We've got to learn from our mistakes and give everyone an equal chance to survive and thrive. Lore could stay the same but I see that as CCP shooting themselves in the foot. At present the lore establishes Dusters as nothing more than a general kind of super soldier. We're..... - about eight feet tall in combat clones with depending on your dropsuit up to 25mm of armour plating - have reduced pain senses to allow us to take significant damage and keep fuctioning - given featureless bodies and faces to cut down on clone costs - equipped with weapons so powerful that firing them without a dropsuit would break a baseliners arm or set them ablaze And yet for all those merits those incredible aspects we're still..... - so under CONCORD's thumb that we're functionally no more capable and vastly more expensive than a baseliner mercenary company. If CCP does establish Legion as its own game I'd love to see them iterate upon the lore of the cloned soldiers to see us get outside CONCORDs authority, operating freely throughout the cluster in conflicts whose war prices are either so high operating with baseliners is no longer possible. Soldiers who need to operate in environments so hostile that our ability to mitigate the loss of experience upon death is worth spending fortunes upon, in localities so difficult to conventionally deploy to that high speed orbital drops or short range teleportation/displacement technology is required, or in places that require the attention of mercenaries part conventional soldier and part astronaut. I'd also love to see them take the idea of commercialised conflict more seriously when describing our kinds of conflicts. We're modern, professional, and economically motivated soldiers. Supply and Demand, Cost and Profits, Gain and Loss should really be the only concepts that matter to us.
Yes, this.
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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.21 15:40:00 -
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Pokey Dravon wrote:For those of you requesting SP to transfer. Would a system that started you at 0SP but offered accelerated SP generation that drew from your old SP pool be acceptable? For example say you have 20M SP right now At the port you would get x1.5 SP generation. That x0.5 pulls from your stored 20M SP. So Once you earned 40M SP in the port, you would have consumed your stored 20M SP, and would have a total of 60M SP. After that you would drop down to x1.0 generation like everyone else. Effectively starting everyone off on the same foot, but giving you the option to re-earn your SP so your time investment in DUST is not completely lost. Personally speaking I think this is pretty acceptable and would be a decent compromise between the two camps. Props to Vrain and others I've talked to before about this for the idea Vrain Matari wrote: SP - We steal a page from 'Age of Elyria': Vets get skill-wiped but....in Dust2, they relearn at double speed until they hit their original sp level pre-migration.
Vrain Matari wrote: Good stuff Pokey.
Posted all philosophical-like on your Biomassed blog article.
I saw that, you know quality feedback like that makes me happy
So a booster that lasts indefinetly and gives more than what we had before hand? Considering we would have to work for it (again) that does sound reasonable. I'd still rather just have a unallocated SP pool.
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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.21 15:46:00 -
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Vrain Matari wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:I don't get why a direct SP transfer would be a bad thing. What does it matter if vets have a SP advantage at launch or 2 years down the road? If the ported game can expect to draw in new players 2 years down the road when we all have button of SP, it can expect to draw them in when we have buttons of SP at launch. This is an important point, one of the crucial make-or-break issue for Dust2. Really the question of whether sp or ISK should transfer is moot, the real question is: 'will CCP be willing and able to design a game that preserves a quality player experience in the face of sp and ISK imbalances?'. If they can achieve such a lofty goal then transferring vet's progress will do no harm, if they can't then Alena has predicted the future of Dust2. It's a problem common to all persistent mmorpgs, and if CCP is going to solve it they're going to have to step up their game-design game.
EVE doesn't have this problem, which is wh I'm perplexed as to why they haven't figured this **** out yet.....
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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.21 20:23:00 -
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I believe that most people would agree that due to the nature of ISK being able to be easily reearned in a short amount of time that ISK can be safely removed without pissing many people off (obviously, everyone would need a starting amount of ISK, or some starting gear, like in EVE). The split is with bought assets, and SP. One side thinks that everyone should be equal because they feel that it's going to be a new game, while others feel that it's a unnecessary thing to do, and that won't solve anything in the future.
As I've already state, I see it as unnecessary. Dust is dust, updated, moved to a new platform, whatever, it's still dust. Simply saying "well because it moved means everything needs to be undone" is silly. However, I do understand the idea of growing a world, and a world with gods already within it would be odd. So, I wouldn't be opposed to say the booster idea. However, bought items of every kind needs to be transfered over, unless they decide to shut down the game for a extended period of time (1-3 years+). Even then, BPO's regardless would need to go over.
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Godin Thekiller
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Posted - 2015.12.22 04:11:00 -
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deezy dabest wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:I believe that most people would agree that due to the nature of ISK being able to be easily reearned in a short amount of time that ISK can be safely removed without pissing many people off (obviously, everyone would need a starting amount of ISK, or some starting gear, like in EVE). The split is with bought assets, and SP. One side thinks that everyone should be equal because they feel that it's going to be a new game, while others feel that it's a unnecessary thing to do, and that won't solve anything in the future.
As I've already state, I see it as unnecessary. Dust is dust, updated, moved to a new platform, whatever, it's still dust. Simply saying "well because it moved means everything needs to be undone" is silly. However, I do understand the idea of growing a world, and a world with gods already within it would be odd. So, I wouldn't be opposed to say the booster idea. However, bought items of every kind needs to be transfered over, unless they decide to shut down the game for a extended period of time (1-3 years+). Even then, BPO's regardless would need to go over. I hate to break it to you but thanks to trading (gifting) ISK is now a bought asset that people have spent real cash on. Before that I would have agreed that ISK can go away. How many boosters have people bought just to sell? How many skins have people bought just to sell? How many people bought Jara to get more for their NPC sales? How many people have bought warbarge components to upgrade their market network? (okay I admit not many on that) The list goes on but you see my point. Wiping out some peoples ISK is just the same as wiping out their skins or their BPOs. EDIT: Besides if ISK is not going what is to stop people from buying up all the skins that will transfer and selling them at absurd prices in the new version just to get right back where they were.
It's not a directly bought, so no.
And nothing. I understand that, and honestly, I'm fine with that (BPO's will hopefully be tied to manufacturing by then, in which case will be expensive as hell anyways).
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