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Adipem Nothi
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Posted - 2016.01.21 01:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Because when it comes to True HAV Balance, Nova Knives make for a far bigger problem than perma-hardened blaster maddies and ineffective Swarms. 
Tell you what. Let's trade that unacceptable and unbearably offensive NK damage for a limitation of 1 hardener per loadout. Instantly better HAV balance. That's the goal, right? Better balance?
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Posted - 2016.01.21 04:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Because when it comes to True HAV Balance, Nova Knives make for a far bigger problem and higher priority than perma-hardened blaster maddies and ineffective Swarms. Why not ask Rattati if you can trade out that unbearably offensive NK damage for a reasonable and fair limitation of 1 hardener per loadout? Bam! Instantly better HAV balance. No more NK QQ. Progress on two fronts. Happiness and high fives all around. But most importantly, instantly better HAV balance. Better HAV balance is the goal, right? Where did I express the idea that this would function to balance AV vs Tanks? Merely that the idea that a combat knife could meaningfully damage a tank.... is beyond laughable. Also it not necessarily a fair demand to limit modules unless you feel compelled to effect the same limitation on certain dropsuit modules which produce some of the most popular fittings.
Priorities, TA. Here we are in yet another HAV balance thread, and once again we find pilots scratching heads and dragging heels over serious and longstanding balance issues. Yet somehow, they've the strength of mind to find, complain reach consensus on something on "the other side" that they don't like ... something with of little-to-no effect whatsoever on True HAV Balance.
Do carry on.
As for what's fair, consider the cloak. It is truly crap. And yet dropsuits are limited to one per loadout. If CCP can find reason to limit something that's largely ineffective to one per loadout, why could they not do the same with something as overly effective?
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Posted - 2016.01.21 12:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Devadander wrote:The nk vehicle damage thing, was always a bad idea imo. The only reason it got deployed was a very vocal group at the time.
Free Perspective:
Blaster Madrugars
* OP from Uprising 1.7 to Present (761 days and counting)
* "Don't touch my permahardened Blaster Maddie. It's popular!"
Very Vocal Scouts
* OP from Uprising 1.8 to Uprising 1.10 (254 days)
* UP for nearly a year prior and UP for over a year after
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Posted - 2016.01.22 14:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Because when it comes to True HAV Balance, Nova Knives make for a far bigger problem and higher priority than perma-hardened blaster maddies and ineffective Swarms. Why not ask Rattati if you can trade out that unbearably offensive NK damage for a reasonable and fair limitation of 1 hardener per loadout? Bam! Instantly better HAV balance. No more NK QQ. Progress on two fronts. Happiness and high fives all around. But most importantly, instantly better HAV balance. Better HAV balance is the goal, right? Okay, then for infantry, only one plate per loadout. But we all know that won't fix ****, so let's cut it.
That's the type of plate that confers short-term invulnerability, right? If so, probably a good idea.
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Posted - 2016.01.22 15:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:... instead of screaming "HARDENERS HARDENERS" how about we look at the thing WE as the pilots have figured out months ago: Repairers.
Over two years of broken tanks, hundreds and hundreds of "Let's fix HAV" threads, and guys have yet to make up your mind on what the actual problem is. But one thing's for sure ...
"Stacking Hardeners isn't the problem! Don't touch my permahardened maddie! It's popular!"
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Posted - 2016.01.22 16:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
From my vantage, Hardener Stacking is a problem. Here's why:
Assume that you've crept up undetected behind a stationary, hardened Blaster Maddie. When his hardener drops, you hit him with everything you've got. Lai Dais, Plasma Cannon, Proto Swarms. You call the mix and method. One of two most likely scenarios follow:
#1 - The Blaster Maddie hauls arse away, hoping and praying that another AVer does not engage.
#2 - The Blaster Maddie moves a few meters, clicks on another hardener, rotates turret and kills you.
Sadly, the second scenario is far from uncommon. This is why I think that Hardener Stacking is an issue. This is not good gameplay.
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Posted - 2016.01.23 00:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Devadander wrote:
There will be no hardener limit.
That's a shame. Scenario #2 is a serious problem. So long as Scenario #2 is happening, HAV / AV interplay will remain broken. Limiting hardeners might furrow brows but it fixes the problem without creating new problems. The only other conceivable fix involves weakening dual-hardened HAVs by such degree that the AVer in Scenario #2 solos the tank before it activates its second hardener. Good luck getting that one past your peers.
Can't think of any other solutions to this serious interplay problem. But I wish you luck!
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Posted - 2016.01.23 00:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
... hardeners aren't the problem ...
What I see in game simple. When caught off-guard and/or hit hard with AV, tanks which aren't hardened typically retreat and tanks which are hardened very often stand their ground. Perhaps there is a combination of factors at play, but the common denominator seems to be the hardener.
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Posted - 2016.01.23 04:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Devadander wrote:
I get it, people want to run up solo and kill a tank.
This may be what some people want, but it isn't at all what I suggested. I suggested that you account for and protect against Scenario #2. So long as Scenario #2 is happening, HAV/AV interplay will not be balanced. Limiting hardeners is the simplest and most assured solution. If the same can be accomplished by other means, then by all means, carry on.
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Posted - 2016.01.23 05:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Devadander wrote:
I get it, people want to run up solo and kill a tank.
This may be what some people want, but it isn't at all what I suggested. I suggested that you account for and protect against Scenario #2 in your design. So long as Scenario #2 is happening, HAV/AV interplay will not be balanced. Done with this thread and the restraint it takes to stay out of character. Archduke is a god among men for putting up with us. Aaaaaaand on that note..Edit: because I'm not going to keep explaining stuff that has been laid out three-four pages ago
I've read the thread. Civil given the subject matter, lots of good ideas, much promise, etc. Kudos. But barring Thad's spreadsheet, I've yet to see anything in the way of specifics, hence my concerns. Let's not forget that flowery words and the best of intentions preceded Uprising 1.7.
I've contributed a specific problem scenario to the conversation. If you're telling me not to be concerned about the provided problem scenario -- that you've accounted for it in the plan you have in mind but not on paper -- then you're telling me this for the first time. Looking forward to seeing those numbers.
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Posted - 2016.01.23 05:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Devadander wrote:
Edit: oh and if one person can easily kill an HAV, more than one (oh idk, a fireteam?) could wreck HAV before they left the line. Making gameplay for operators complete ****.
Sorry, not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent.
Again, that's not what I'm asking for. Read carefully.
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Posted - 2016.01.23 05:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
Also, instead of screaming "HARDENERS HARDENERS" how about we look at the thing WE as the pilots have figured out months ago: Repairers.
Months ago, huh? Glad to hear you guys figured it out, Godin. Though if so obvious, I have to ask ... why did it take you two years to nail down, and why didn't it make it into FoxFour?
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Posted - 2016.01.23 13:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Devadander wrote:But seriously, I have three sheets with different ideas on each.
It's getting massive. And doing the maths when I tinker one thing across the vehicle types is tiresome.
But if you actually read... You would know I'm not stopping at vehicles. After I get things where I want them, I will collaborate with AV users to tune AV for my proposed changes.
This will be all at ccp's mercy in the end... So calm your ****...
Sounds good. **** are calmed. Standing by.
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