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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
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Posted - 2015.10.17 03:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
* substantially increase market buyback prices * introduce keep-what-you-kill
That's it! Reward a merc with EOM salvage encompassing everything he killed in the match. If the merc leaves match prematurely, he doesn't get his loot.
Who cares if mercs make a lot of ISK farming one another? If DUST lives and is eventually ported, at the very minimum our ISK reserves will be limited in transfer. If DUST dies on PS3, at least we'll go down battling it out rather than cherry-picking fights and pinching pennies.
Let newbros make windfall profits if/when they drop protobears. They ****ing deserve it! And let us take a crack at managing the officer weapon spam. If Jara can fetch a solid price on the market, I'll bet you'll find more officer gear being removed from circulation than recirculated back into the hands of the rich who spam it; even if not, it'd definitely drive up player market prices.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
126
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Posted - 2015.10.17 03:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nice. This would also encourage a behavior that's already present in Eve of small gangs going after shinies so they can share the spoils.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 03:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
fundamentally I have no problem with the idea
except how do you expect us to deal with the officer spam if the officer gear is not destroyed in battle but is simply moved form one merc to another
I would be substantially richer from all the proto and officer gear I destroy only using std gear, do I deserve it? sure maybe, but should I be able to run officer 24/7 just because I am a good player? or because i have the isk to do so?
I don't think anyone should be able to run officer gear 24/7 that easily at that point and currently I don't feel like its rare at all, instead I feel like the rich get richer while the poor suffer, and although I find that fundamentally funny and ironic how closely it resembles the real world, its just no fun to have things be that easy
so let me ask you this, what would become of officer weapons, they get destroyed less often therefore making the amount available inflate, the price in the real world would deflate but I don't find that likely in dust, instead I feel like it would only serve to give those wealthy enough more reserves am I wrong to think that? would we simply be expected to sell them back not to players but to the npc market?
I may have a suggestion that bypasses the problem by simply converting the salvage directly to isk this would make it so that no one can abuse the system and killing proto would be more fruitful then killing mlt
Reserved
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
126
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Posted - 2015.10.17 04:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Module drop rate for a destroyed ship in Eve is 50%. Enough to encourage trying to get them to 'drop' but not enough that it creates an infinite amount of stuff. That would work here too.
Something is killing new player retention.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
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Posted - 2015.10.17 04:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:I may have a suggestion that bypasses the problem by simply converting the salvage directly to isk this would make it so that no one can abuse the system and killing proto would be more fruitful then killing mlt That'd work as well. Could make for an effective incentive if the ISK value of what you destroyed flashed onscreen after the +50WP. Could even keep a rolling total somewhere on the HUD, so you know exactly what you stand to earn on battle completion (and what you stand to lose if you leave battle).
The idea here is to incentivize earnest participation and effort. And, of course, to reward defying the odds. Killing a vet in officer gear should be like killing a "boss" in other games. The loot (on success) should outweigh the risks and costs of throwing your lesser self at him over and over again.
I absolutely love the idea of newbros earning a fat paycheck if/when they kill me.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
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Posted - 2015.10.17 04:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Module drop rate for a destroyed ship in Eve is 50%. Enough to encourage trying to get them to 'drop' but not enough that it creates an infinite amount of stuff. That would work here too. Sounds good to me. For whatever it's worth, I'd pay AUR for a Steward Bot that let me mark end of match what salvage gets kept and what salvage gets sold back-to-market. I like the idea of working with salvage because it is more "hands on" and interesting than working strictly with ISK. Plus, payout increases tied to salvage would potentially increase demand for Jara.
That said, the "rolling total" idea above would put an ISK value on the cost of departing battle prematurely. I could go either way :-)
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
131
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Posted - 2015.10.17 04:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: That said, the "rolling total" idea above would put an ISK value on the cost of departing battle prematurely. So I could go either way :-)
Yeah I'm with you on that, both create the same end result. I think when you've got that situation you should look at whichever adds the most flavour.
One problem with the isk at EoM thing, who decides the value of the dropped items that currently aren't on the NPC market?
Something is killing new player retention.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
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Posted - 2015.10.17 04:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote: One problem with the isk at EoM thing, who decides the value of the dropped items that currently aren't on the NPC market?
Everything should have a market price. Only a few FW items (that I know of) can't be sold back to the market; this is a presumed bug.
Edit: Good point, though. Those items should probably be identified, so they don't crash the system. Lol.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Shaun Iwairo
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
131
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Posted - 2015.10.17 04:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote: One problem with the isk at EoM thing, who decides the value of the dropped items that currently aren't on the NPC market?
Everything should have a market price. Only a few FW items (that I know of) can't be sold back to the market; this is a presumed bug. Edit: Good point, though. Those items should probably be identified, so they don't crash the system. Lol.
Officer and experimental gear doesn't have an in-game price, this will be the biggest problem because they're the big fat carrot that the system relies on. AUR items are easy because they all (I think?) have an ISK equivalent (except for the skill requirements but ISK don't care about whether you could have used it or not).
Something is killing new player retention.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
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Posted - 2015.10.17 04:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote: One problem with the isk at EoM thing, who decides the value of the dropped items that currently aren't on the NPC market?
Everything should have a market price. Only a few FW items (that I know of) can't be sold back to the market; this is a presumed bug. Edit: Good point, though. Those items should probably be identified, so they don't crash the system. Lol. Officer and experimental gear doesn't have an in-game price, this will be the biggest problem because they're the big fat carrot that the system relies on. AUR items are easy because they all (I think?) have an ISK equivalent (except for the skill requirements but ISK don't care about whether you could have used it or not). Sure they do. You can't buy these from the NPC market, but you can sell 'em to the NPC market (Jara bonus applies). Try selecting them from your inventory; context menu should include in the option to sell.
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2015.10.17 08:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:* substantially increase market buyback prices * introduce keep-what-you-kill
That's it! Reward a merc with EOM salvage encompassing everything he killed in the match. If the merc leaves match prematurely, he doesn't get his loot.
Who cares if mercs make a lot of ISK farming one another? If DUST lives and is eventually ported, at the very minimum our ISK reserves will be limited in transfer. If DUST dies on PS3, at least we'll go down battling it out rather than cherry-picking fights and pinching pennies.
Let newbros make windfall profits if/when they drop protobears. They ****ing deserve it! And let us take a crack at managing the officer weapon spam. If Jara can fetch a solid price on the market, I'll bet you'll find more officer gear being removed from circulation than recirculated back into the hands of the rich who spam it; even if not, it'd definitely drive up player market prices.
Secondary Benefits * Directly rewards activity and accomplishment * Puts more ISK in newbro pockets (narrows wealth gap) * Heavily incentivizes fighting uphill battles * Potentially increases demand for Jara sexybots
Sadly after fighting for keep what you kill for oh so long a few major flaws were pointed out to me.
Seriously screwed up risk / reward ratio on snipers was the one that no matter how complicated I got with the mechanics on it I could not get around. |
Shaun Iwairo
DUST University Ivy League
134
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Posted - 2015.10.17 08:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
NOTICE: CONCORD announces new rules of engagement for mercenaries throughout New Eden.
MESSAGE: Every mercenary participating in legal, publicly available contracts will be issued a KWIK module blueprint that will be fitted to their dropsuit helmets, free of charge.
DETAILS: The technology for the KWIK module came about from a need for fast marking and identification of warehouse stocks. Re-purposed for battlefield use, the module acts as a medium-range tagger, marking recently abandoned combat assets for later retrieval by those that rendered the assets abandoned. While the marking and identification system already in place on the KWIK modules is perfectly suitable for this use, the range at which it can be used is currently limited. Tests confirm 100% success at ranges less than x meters, 75% at x - y meters, and a sharp drop off of around 40% - 25% at ranges above y meters.
oh god I need a life
Something is killing new player retention.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
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Posted - 2015.10.17 10:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
I like the idea. It's in the vein of paying you for the effort you exerted during a game. If you slaughter a bunch of newberries in starter fits you don't get any reasonable rewards. If you manage to score a kill on an enemy of a higher tier you get shiny stuff.
However, if a substantial amount of ISK reward is supposed to be based around individual kills this sort of devalues supporting activities such as hacking objectives or uplinks in relation to killing people. Not that this is a sufficiently large argument to not implement the proposed scheme, but it's something to keep in mind.
I'm all for a payout scheme that is based on individual activities. Farming newberries in starter fits for entertainment should not be rewarded the same as keeping up the fight against a better equipped enemy. Right now the inverse is true. The officer-spam is rewarded bountifully and the new players barely get their ISK back (non-APEX STD fits are comparatively expensive these days, I think). This seems like a worthwhile scheme that rewards effort: Better equipped enemies result in more effort to kill them which results in better rewards in the form of loot. Works for me.
Suggestion: Should loot be distributed randomly across the team? That way more wealth bleeds to lower ranks. Or should the percentage of loot claimed per player be a function of the amount of WP they contributed to the team? That rewards individual effort while still giving support roles the appreciation they deserve. Or should the amount of claimed stuff be somewhere in the middle?
Suggestion #2: Help newberries by telling them what to do with loot in a textbox after their first match with loot. I don't think your average free-to-play FPS customer on the PS3 is aware of the fact that gear can be sold. (In fact I don't know what ratio of new players has becomes aware of the skill tree or the marketplace within the first 7 days of playing, but that is an entirely different issue.) |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
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Posted - 2015.10.17 15:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote: Suggestion #1A: Should loot be distributed randomly across the team? That way more wealth bleeds to lower ranks. Or should the percentage of loot claimed per player be a function of the amount of WP they contributed to the team?
#1B: That rewards individual effort while still giving support roles the appreciation they deserve. Or should the amount of claimed stuff be somewhere in the middle?
#2A: Help newberries by telling them what to do with loot in a textbox after their first match with loot. I don't think your average free-to-play FPS customer on the PS3 is aware of the fact that gear can be sold. In fact I don't know what ratio of new players has becomes aware of the skill tree or the marketplace within the first 7 days of playing, but that is an entirely different issue.
Thanks, Stefan Here's my two cents:
#1A - Thinking there should be a direct, 1-to-1 relationship between killer and killed. When the newbro fires the killshot that drops a protobear, I'd like that newbro to be expecting shinies EOM. Rewarding the whole team for player effort is already built into EOM pay mechanisms. The goal here is to motivate players (above and beyond existing mechanics) by rewarding them directly for their individual effort and achievement.
#1B - Today's Logi is (A) perfectly capable of killing reds and (B) is already paid generously for his/her support contributions. The only exception (and only in terms of pay) is the GalLogi, which -- while low on the WP scale -- is far from struggling; this particular unit needs work in more ways than one (nerf active scans, buff intel assist WP).
#2A - Excellent point. This (and tons of other stuff) could be built into the new Achievements 1.0 interface, which I think could and should effectively double as a tutorial system. Details.
Achievement (Tier I) * Salvage and sell 100 items looted from hostile combatants.
Description When mercenary is killed in combat, a percentage of his gear will be destroyed; any gear which is not destroyed is automatically looted and displayed in the End of Match Summary under "Salvage". Looted gear is added to player inventory, where it can be accessed and equipped for use in future battles or sold back to the NPC market for ISK. To complete this Achievement, access your Inventory and sell 100 salvaged items to the NPC market.
Rewards 100,000 SP. 100,000 ISK.
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