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Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.16 09:11:00 - [1] - Quote x rep tool user Y person being repped logi and or shield rep tool user gives x amount of their own shields to user Y demonstration cal logi 300 shields 70 shiled regen reps cal sent with stacked shiled extenders for a total of 900 shields and base shiled regen cal logi (x) reps cal heavy (y) for 75 reps/s Y is taking exactly 75 damge per second X is repping Y for the same amount of 75 x slowly depletes his/her own shields by a rate of 5 per second due to the imbalance of the shields being transferred and their rep rate, eventually dropping to 0 and not being able to rep the sentinel due to lacking the base amount of reps and the depletion of their own shields which leaves them to wait for their depleted delay to kick in second example same scenario x takes damge making their shiled recharge delay kick in, due to this the x loses all its shields due to not being able to regen the amount being transferred third example same scenario as the first with one slight modification x replaces a recharge for an energizer giving it slightly more reps then the amount being transferred, x achieves a good balance and is able to replenish its own shields while transferring over to Y Y's view, Y take damge making its delays kick in and not being able to replenish its own shields, X reps Y and Y receives the shields being transferred, Y's delays cycle trough and its shields start to self replenish giving it its base recharge plus the shields being transferred allowing it to get back into battle quickly rep tool values (basic variant) range 15m mlt 60 reps/s std 60 reps/s adv 75 reps/s proto 90 reps/s variants flux extends range to double as well as doubles targets healed but reps for half as much as it takes away i.e. shiled cost 60 to rep two targets for 30 focused half's the range but doubles output i.e. shiled cost 60 to rep 120 gauged reduces shiled cost in half i.e. costs 30 to rep for 60 quantum doubles targets healed but at 75% output efficiency i.e. cost 60 reps two targets at 45 this is just a rough concept of the top of my head, I thought it'd be a fun idea to mess with and I cant really find any reasonable way to exploit such a system wherein the logi has to dedicate some slots to recharge just to be effective at repping, while the cal logi would benefit the most form using it while it could still be used by other suits but perhaps not as effectively other then perhaps on other caldari suits or dedicated shiled recharge min suits and there's already plenty of ways to counter this the simplest a flux nade that depletes both the logi and the heavy if they stand to close to each other while choosing longer range rep tools causes the reps to be less potent I didn't want to per say copy the armor rep tool so this is more of a concept for a shiled transfer tool which literally takes shields form the host to give to the recipient the way I imagine this working best is for a logi preferably a cal logi to stack a few recharges or energizers to overcome the cost while still applying shiled regulators rather then armor extenders to make sure they can continue repping quickly if they happen to take damge Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 03:12:00 - [2] - Quote having a rep tool that does this is a bit pointless when you can already achieve under a second of down time delays do not equal to reps, even if they were implemented sentinels still would only rep at 30 per second with stacked shields and would get annihilated due to not being able to rep trough damge like armor does not to mention that armor suits have higher base and higher potential ehp in most cases a cal sent with stacked rechargers would still need to take cover for a few seconds to rep back up to full while an armor suit is able to rep while taking damge even at 0 delay reps would not initiate due to them taking damge and the fact that its reps per second not incremental, so taking any more damge then that of the threshold makes them have to wait for regen now an alternative could be a tool that increases thresholds so that only high damge weapons could stop the regen but that still has its complications and is not very practical it also makes it abusive able in some cases depending on how its implemented I just dont see much potential in other concepts and I dont want to simply copy the armor repper over to shileds this is just a concept tho and its all my own opinion I think it would work well and would be a unique play style that is inspired by EvE Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 05:41:00 - [3] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Of all the shield rep tool ideas this is probably the most unique. Which is good. Can't be abused by the logi because while the shields ignore the normal recharge delay while repping, damage will activate it. Nice. I did notice in your variants that there's no version that takes more shield than it reps for total. I think you should take a couple of your less efficient ones and move them over to that. That way if you want sustained reps it's going to be for a smallish amount, but if you want big bursts of reps it's going to cost you most of your shield. I did consider this however I didn't find it to be that practical, why use a tool that takes twice as much shields as it reps for when you could use a focused one the numbers I gave are just examples and can be adjusted as needed so they are up to debate originally the flux variant concept was that of 120 cost for 60 rep rate with the benefit being range, but when compared to the armor variant it seemed lacking and left the logi vulnerable as well as making it entirely useless on armor logis which I didnt want to be the case the shiled rep tool should be effective on armor logis as well but should naturally be better when paired with shiled logis for the sake of parity, the min logi bonus could also apply while having better rep rates it would still naturally take more for a min logi to use them effectively while the cal logi wouldn't be bothered by using them as much due to their naturally higher and preferred rep rates when using this tool like I said it is a concept so feel free to add your own twist or make a suggestion Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.17 05:47:00 - [4] - Quote Haolo Geardreck wrote: Only a Caldari can get the delay that low, and usually only for depleted delay. This, at proto level, would allow shield to regent as armor does, but at its naturally higher rate. And as it is not physically fixing anything, just overriding the safety of the targets shield generators, it could have a longer range. Also means people with a logo around could pop out a suit without regulators, using biotic, armor, or any other low module. And for some suits a basic models 50% can be more than 3 seconds difference, especially if they used an extender. well the idea is to have the tool be dependent on shiled recharge not delays, while min and cal logis would be able to use them more efficiently and not have to worry about down times as much gal and amarr logis would still be able to use the tool and could use their high slots to augment their rep rates as well as use energizers rather then rechargers as the drawbacks are less severe on them and give more total reps it would also give the min sent a sort of unique role as it could be repped by both an armor and shiled tool somewhat effectively but it would still take two logis like it would on any suit it would just mean that min sents could be more dynamic being able to tank both shiled and armor type damge delays on logis arent that bad even an amarr logi could make use of such a tool Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 21:49:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Have you considered perhaps something that is a AoE burst that forcefully starts allied shield recharge over a wide area? Allowing allies to spend less time in cover and more time regening their own HP? I like the idea but simply putting a short burst wouldn't do much of anything since the suits that need it dont have to worry too much about down times anymore and recharge rates are what keeps your from staying in cover for either a 10-15 seconds down to 3-5 my tools works more to counter play armor users, it doesn't have to be as strong with the natural resistance to HMG's but it has to have a significant down side in using which Is why I thought about the logi being dependent on its recharge rates a AoE rep tool that shortens allies down times or kick starts their regen would be interesting, however I do think it is fairly easy to exploit such an idea lets say you have an amarr assault that is receiving both armor reps and is restarting its shiled regen by going in to cover and getting a logi to activate its tool, now perhaps it wouldnt be that much of a problem but as I see it armor suits would be able to benefit just as much with shiled suits still having to rely on recharge rates and not be able to tank as effectively, the minmatar I think would be the ones to benefit most from such an idea while it wouldn't help shiled suits as much with their low shield delays especially if the tool can only burst once every few seconds if the tool were to make it so that shileds are repping constantly when not taking damge but only lasts for a few seconds then maybe it would work just enough to allow shiled tankers to push objectives and such but again they would still heavily realy more on recharge rates and would not benefit too much from something like this thus would not be an effective counterplay mechanism to armor reppers (that includes triage hives not just rep tools) taking some notes from a vehicle side if this tool also gave shiled users a hefty recharge bonus it might just work but I suggest at least giving it short bursts that last over a period of time rather then a scan like down time system perhaps 3 bursts over 3-5 seconds with a down time of maybe 15 seconds allowing a logi to carry multiple tools to be able to constantly give out pulses I do have some major concerns for such ideas tho as simply put it could easily be exploited and might sound good in text but might not work out so well in practice the three main forms of repping seems to be resistance active and burst so far I think any of them could work but would have to be implemented carefully the ideas could be combined to make a sort of hybrid and could be moved to a different platform such as a different type of nano hive that a cal logi would already have a bonus towards a resistance tool could increase shiled thresholds so that their passive reps could continue to be active unless a high alpha weapon hit them and active tool like my concept could work similarly to an armor rep tool a burst tool would serve to be like a shiled booster on a vehicle forcefully restarting the shields but would be useless while taking damge unlike the other two concepts (unless it bypassed or combined with the shiled threshold or active rep idea or perhaps both) I have made a suggestion myself for all three types of ideas one being a shiled booster infantry module and the other being a threshold enhancing equipment of some sort however this is the first time that I have seen an opportunity to make such a balanced tool with the available numbers in game with the cal logi being naturally better at using it and still allowing others to do the same but not as effectively or as efficiently as it currently stand with armor rep tools and min logis I took a page from EvE when coming up with this idea as similar mechanisms are in place where one ship can transfer its shields to another as a reference http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Logistics_Ships_101 shiled transferring ships are vulnerable to jams as such my tool works similar to that in where it cannot rep if its main tank is taken out by a flux nade as well as when taking too much damge to allow counter play without having to kill the logi you can still disable its ability to rep, something which is not so possible with armor rep tool users the drawbacks are more to keep things in line so as to not allow shiled to take over but simply give a good option to counter play armor tanks and armor rep tool combos Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.18 21:56:00 - [6] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I actually think that shield rep tools should apply some resistance while applied instead of increasing shields. I'm sure the % resistance could be figured up by taking average DPS versus the rep rate of armor tools and find some base number that balances out. The only problem there is I do not know how "triage" points would be applied in that scenario. I'm positive triage is aHP over time (weaker tools take longer to get triage points after all) so it'll simply be shield damage resisted over time is directly proportional to aHP repaired over time. sHP resist * armor repair time Gê¥ aHP repaired * sHP resistance time Feels like a farm fest waiting to happen but they have already solved that on armor so I like it a lot. the thing about resistance tanking is that there are plenty of ways to counter it and the simplest being a flux nade that takes out your tank instantly ignoring any threshold and getting you to your depleted delay after this taking any damge will not allow your shields to start to regen and even if they do your regen would not be enough as any weapon can easily out dps any regen you have, as well as it not being effective against high alpha weaponry such as the scram rifle any scram pistol, breach AR, and any weapon that you can think of with high enough damge output, having a threshold that negates all this would simply be no different then removing shield delays altogether and would make shields work no differently then that of armor while shield transferring has logic and is modeled after a system already in EvE and gets rid of the problem of self replenishing with their own recharge and delays not being taken into account when being repped unlike that of armor which serves as an extra buffer but not much of one in most cases Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.19 04:40:00 - [7] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Armor: Increases aHP/s Shield: Increases sHP (resistance), reduces delay. Now a bad example is 463 sHP @ 101 sHP/s (my FW C/1 assault) 2 second delay, 3 second depleted delay (for the sake of simplicity, round numbers) 463 sHP @ 101 sHP/s (4.58 seconds) Get tethered, 40% increase to sHP [though resistance] 50% reduction regulator 648.2 sHP @ 141.4 sHP/s (4.58 second recharge) (1.5 second delay) Now on a max sHP calAss 707 sHP 989.8 sHP after a 40% increase to e-sHP Now... I'm just taking some numbers out of nowhere (the resistance and regulation percentages) but you see what I mean? Same time... Flux completely screwing over anything shield based is just something we'll have to continue dealing with it; already happens. /* skimmed through the posts for a quick reply. Had no time sorry! */ your idea quickly falls apart when you realize that an amarr assault can tank over 1k hp without any help from any tools and can be repped for over 150 with a focused rep tool on a min logi while amarr sents can tank over 1.3k and be repped just as much while being repped by two focused rep tool min logis can get it well over the dps of most low damge weapons, a tank like this is ridiculous but possible and any shiled tool that falls short will be useless espeacilly when you consider the amount of damge shileds take from certain weapons and flux nades along with their delays, lower ehp, and inability to engage in CQC for prolonged periods of time like armor suits for example lets compare your idea on a cal sent with stacked shiled mods against the current meta an amarr sent with a focused tool repping it and a min logi max skills the cal sent would have 1324 shiled even at say 90 percent reduction to delays it still only reps for 30 per sec in this case lets imagine that delays even get canceled out and reps keep going even after taking any amount of damge an amarr sent has 1344 armor and with a min logi repping it gets 158 reps per second, as you can see an amarr sent would still clearly have the advantage even after ignoring its secondary tank which acts as a buffer to its main tank unlike on a cal sent which only serves to keep it from dying too quickly but once its depleted unless it gets repped it will not rep itself back up fast enough to make a difference the clear problem becomes the rep rates a cal sent cannot hp tank and recharge tank without giving up one for the other as well as having naturally lower ehp which isnt a problem in itself but can be problematic in certain situations the reason I suggested my idea was due to how reliant shields are on recharge rates and the fact that while taking damge that suits recharge, recharge delays, and depleted recharge delays do not matter at all because if you don't survive a match up you cant rep back up this makes tanking either hard or useless on shiled suits while that may be ok for any role other then the sentinel I believe there needs to be a good way to counter that amarr sent and while every other faction can make use of the min logi sent combo the caldari cannot at least not well enough to be as effective now lets compare my tool idea with the previous amarr example, mind you I am covering this amarr vs cal since they are both the respective tankers of shields and armor while the other two rely on more then just raw HP so a cal sent 946 shields and a cal logi repping it with a focused rep tool, instead of doing the base of 90 for a pro shield rep tool it would do double that at 180 reps/s, focused rep tool half the std range double the output the amarr sent would still beat it out in raw HP but the cal makes up for it somewhat by repping for more hp like shiled suits are known to do, mind you this rep rate does not come directly from the tool nor does it come from the sents stats, in fact the shiled logi is directly transferring its shields to the cal sent and that is being enhanced by the tool so in a sense they are sharing shields this makes the logi more vulnerable then any other logi would be using an armor rep tool but as the numbers show they benefit more from doing so the difference comes up and favors the shiled tanker if based upon both using the same HMG, since the HMG does more damge to armor this also allows for more balance, however if the amarr sent is using an anti shiled weapon that works similar to the HMG or is at least its equivalent heavy weapon form the amarr would still have the upper hand and to show this the ScR can be used as a placeholder as it does massive damge to shields even after the resistance of the cal sent is considered assuming max skills with a single complex light damge mods, this gets close to 1k even after the cal sents damge mitigation to lasers due to its resistance all in all cal sents would have less ehp but better rep rates in comparable situations while they would both be on somewhat equal grounds with armor still being the better option but shields being able to counter, this includes min sents as they could dual tank and be repped by two logis(or two separate tools on one logi) to benefit form both resistances, if taking armor damge rep shields if taking shiled damge rep armor ect for best effect as you can see I have thought this out a lot and although I am not opposed to other ideas I do have concerns for how effective they would actually be in practice rather then on paper or text in this case if we can learn anything from vehicles is that resistance tanking is not the best to consider when trying to find proper balance and it causes some complications if such a tool as the one you suggest were implemented it would have to be single effect and not stack otherwise we get a walking tank on the fields a tool such as the one I suggested would stack like the rep tool already in play and could not be exploited anymore then the one in play Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.19 08:46:00 - [8] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Ive tried to get something similar going but it got ignored by the devs cause for some silly reason they made up. this is a concept not a pitch I'm not trying to get CCP to do anything I'm just giving them more options, obviously some work would have to be put in to make it possible and I am sure they have plenty of things to work on that are just as important if not more important I don't appreciate people that think they are entitled, you may have had a good idea but that doesn't automatically mean that it should be implemented in any way shape or form now I would appreciate it if you added on to your conversation and perhaps laid out your idea in a short easy to read format so that we can all learn from it and hopefully come up with something we can all agree on or at least get enough backing to actually make a pitch and try to make it a reality, eventually you shouldn't rush the process, many games have failed completely because they try to rush things, and that's one thing that I think people dont realize, they keep asking for more and more instead of being patient while remaining adamant on a goal or a vision for the game Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.19 11:09:00 - [9] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Quick reply (getting ready for school, I'll give a more coherent response if i have free time today) While yes, things would be still in armor's favor, shields are too different to bring it to the same level as armor. A 90% resistance is like a 90% increase to recharge rate. The recharge time to full sHP wouldn't be changed. Okay. Call it a removal of recharge delay, resistance, small increase to recharge rate (e.g 35%) But.. What exactly is your idea? (asking for possible numbers play.) < will post again later today; a full reply. Most likely in the evening > dude if you're not gonna take the time to read why should I take the time to answer your questions, I've already laid out my idea in my original post and have commented on the feedback that I am receiving a 90% resistance is not equal to 90% recharge rate increase, from what you are saying I don't even think you use shield suits sorry if you lack the time to be able to comprehend the concept but you should take whatever time you do have to read the post thoroughly first then you can comment whatever you think "shields are too different to bring to the level or armor" wrong they aren't, the recharge is different but armor and shields both take damge in the same format, with the main difference being that armor reps trough damge while shields do not unless that damge is under the threshold your idea is the one that's trying to make shields into armor by stacking resistance increasing HP rather then giving a better alternative like the concept I stated tries to do shields should not be changed to work like armor that is counterproductive, that is why shields would have a different mechanism that works just as well as armor reps but with a twist I dont want to get into everything i've already stated in previous posts so I would just recommend you to read trough it and respond only after you have done so and think you understand it and if you don't understand then ask anything you need to be clarified before you start just throwing numbers out there Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.19 19:51:00 - [10] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: < reserved > I do read, i do understand (you are for the active recharger) . Don't worry. My replies are the bad thing though ;D By number play I'm asking for an example Like how I kinda gave one. I already gave those in previous posts Reserved

Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.20 00:24:00 - [11] - Quote benandjerrys wrote: Remove scanner for a 360 scan with arm animation. Same timing for coming out of cloak to balance. Lower scan duration to further balance. Use scanner everything to give it graphics. It has one job.... Bring recharge delay to 0. Ranges and angles go higher and lower based on type. Ie focused no range big angle flux big range no angle Cal logi gets big bonus + nano. Min logi gets lower bonus plus big bandwidth. Gal logi gets scan plus vanilla reps. Amarr gets big vanilla reps plus Uplink. interesting but I don't know how practical this would be, also many problems still arize mainly the fact that it doesn't benefit shields as much as it would other factions and cal remains dependent on recharge rates which gets rid of the usefulness for tanking, which is the main thing I wanted to address with bringing in the tool to counter armor reppers and armor tankers Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.20 19:41:00 - [12] - Quote Meee One wrote: Logic loophole detected. Can't assaults get higher shield levels than logis? (Yes) Then doesn't that mean assaults would always be better with this logistics intended equipment? (Yes) funny that you bring that up, because I find your logic flawed, the shield transfer doesn't depend on you hp, otherwise a commando would be better using it, once your shields are gone you have to wait for delays to rep back up againt thus not being able to transfer actively for long periods of time unless you sacrafice your only equipment slot and some highs for recharges or energizers, not to mention that assaults would not be able to both revive and rep since they can only carry a single equipment logis especially the cal logi get better recharge rates, the cal logi can easily get above 90 recharge rate while being able to support with other equipment, while yes the assault would be able to use the tool just like any suit with an equipment slot can use an armor rep tool the logis would still be the best for the job and the cal logi especially would surpass other suits with its ability to rep constantly without interruption unless otherwise caused by enemy damge Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.10.20 19:42:00 - [13] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: SHIELD BOOSTER Basic: -30% delays, +30% recharge Advanced: -40% delays, +40% recharge Proto: -50% delays, +50% recharge Proto Flux: -50% delays, +50% recharge, flux range, higher fittings cost Proto Triage: -60% delays, +60% recharge, vehicle nerf equipment or active module? I have no idea why you would bring vehicles into this since they have nothing to do with the topic at hand not to mention that its a dumb idea to begin with on vehicals with shiled regulators only doing about half as much at each tier Reserved

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