DUST Search - separating early game content from late game content plus more

Shaun Iwairo wrote:

Constructive isn't limited to what you think is correct. You've made some pretty big statements.

Your claim of 'it worked in one game so it must work for all games' is flawed. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Dust is already using most, if not all, of the PS3's available memory.

Players absolutely do contribute to memory usage. Your client has to know where they are, what direction they're facing, what team they're on, whether they're crouching or jumping or falling or ADS or sprinting or shooting or meleeing or reloading or receiving damage or any valid combination of those, the type and tier and variation of the weapon they currently have equipped, what effect that weapon should produce when it's fired, the type and tier and variation of the suit they're wearing, what skin they've applied to that suit, how much shield they have, how much armor they have, their name, their corp, their current KD and their current WP. Doubling the amount of players would logically double the amount of spawnables, so thats the position and type and tier and variation of their uplinks, their hives, their REs and their grenades.

How do you think the client remembers all that?

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Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 04:21:00 - [1] - Quote an Idea that I've had for a while is to introduce a game mode of 32v32 wherein large maps would remove most of the red line and allow a proper war to go on, similarly this could be done with 64v64 and so on I already know and have confirmation that having more then 32 players in a single match is possible, however I am not sure how much work would have to be put in to make a 32v32 game possible, but I imagine that it wouldn't be too much my idea is somewhat simple leave pubs to newer players and lock out proto gear and above, similarly lock out anything above std from the academy/introductory levels of the game then make FW and PC a proper place for bigger and better battles to go on I would also like to see 32 v NPC/bots/drones and other such game modes for general purpose not so much for competition players would rank up according to wp with a base of 100k wp being what is needed to get into FW and maybe even PC I say 100k because not only is it the amount necessary to get the recruitment reward but because taking into account 1k wp on average daily it takes about 4 moths to achieve this should be simple enough and give newer players enough time to get adjusted and not be completely fresh while keeping bad players away from such game modes a little longer until they can improve enough to get into it having bigger PC and FW battles I believe would even things out more with less people being able to take advantage of syncs and bigger corps being able to field full teams while smaller corps could band together to take on bigger foes as well as two big corps being able to have a proper war I bring this up because eventually I would like for dust to at least introduce the possibility of bigger battles and a better experience altogether but I also want to know if something like this would even be possible or practical to begin with, with what is available to us thus far or if it may be possible after some hardware upgrades I'd like to hear others opinions on this and generally I am looking for feedback as to why or why it wouldn't work and if CPM could chime in and possibly take a look at the general view on things to possibly make a pitch to CCP that would be great DISCUSS! Reserved
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.14 04:25:00 - [2] - Quote Yes because Dust is such a stable game where 16v16 never lags actions speak louder then words.
VAHZZ RabbitGang 13 COILS 9	Posted - 2015.10.14 04:27:00 - [3] - Quote throws popcorn never trust a gold digger *The Last True Spartan*
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 04:31:00 - [4] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Yes because Dust is such a stable game where 16v16 never lags please refrain from pointless comments lag may be a serious problem considering the idea but if you aren't going to add any constructive ideas and or criticism I would prefer you not detract from a serious topic that I am trying to present mind you the general idea is to separate fresh blood from players that already have a handle on the game the rest is just more thoughts on what we can offer to level 5+ vets and or late-end game content I might add that I did comment of it possibly requiring a hardware upgrade (server side not ps3) and one is on the horizon possibly so in fact dust may just have the ability to handle such feats Reserved
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 04:32:00 - [5] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: throws popcorn never trust a gold digger why wouldn't you? they are easier to control then someone of "good" morals unless you don't have the cash then I feel bad for you son Reserved
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 67	Posted - 2015.10.14 04:39:00 - [6] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: I might add that I did comment of it possibly requiring a hardware upgrade (server side not ps3) and one is on the horizon possibly so in fact dust may just have the ability to handle such feats The PS3 has 512MB of RAM total. That is where the limit exists, not on the servers. Stat modifiers are killing new player retention.
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 04:47:00 - [7] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Sicerly Yaw wrote: I might add that I did comment of it possibly requiring a hardware upgrade (server side not ps3) and one is on the horizon possibly so in fact dust may just have the ability to handle such feats The PS3 has 512MB of RAM total. That is where the limit exists, not on the servers. although this may be true limitations can be bypassed by certain measures, I am not certain what is and isn't possible and it would take manual tests for me to figure this out but in general I don't see it being too big of a problem but it is something to consider if the devs could chime in and clarify the possibility or otherwise that would be helpful otherwise lets hear out any other problems or possible solutions I will add that mag had far more people on a battlefield then dust and performed well enough taking a page from that book it may not be that far-fetched to believe it a possibility in dust Reserved
Grimmiers 889	Posted - 2015.10.14 05:13:00 - [8] - Quote Dust runs a bit smoother now, but it can still use more memory than the ps3 can handle in certain matches. It's seems like a memory leak created on certain large sockets maps. I want to say it's something as simple as low LOD models never swapping back. For example when I first enter a large socket sometimes it's a blurry low lod mess that I can't even walk through, but after it loads it always stays in this high lod state. If you run into each socket type on the map the framerate will get gradually worse and the players gear and equipment also adds to it as seen in pc battles. This would explain some players getting frame drops while others are fine. Then again this has been a problem for 2 years now and It has to be more complicated.
CUSE TOWN333 Capital Acquisitions LLC 3	Posted - 2015.10.14 05:18:00 - [9] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Yes because Dust is such a stable game where 16v16 never lags please refrain from pointless comments lag may be a serious problem considering the idea but if you aren't going to add any constructive ideas and or criticism I would prefer you not detract from a serious topic that I am trying to present mind you the general idea is to separate fresh blood from players that already have a handle on the game the rest is just more thoughts on what we can offer to level 5+ vets and or late-end game content I might add that I did comment of it possibly requiring a hardware upgrade (server side not ps3) and one is on the horizon possibly so in fact dust may just have the ability to handle such feats my idea is fix the Lag. Then all other great ideas can be entertained. But until then._._._._. actions speak louder then words.
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 05:27:00 - [10] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: my idea is fix the Lag. Then all other great ideas can be entertained. But until then._._._._. I understand and agree with that much believe me I've raged enough over lag as it is lag cannot be so easily fixed and there are many things that simply take more time and effort to fix then simply moving some numbers around if possible I would like to demand to have some fundamental problems fixed but for now I would like to discuss what may be possible at current stages and or after some server side upgrades that may in fact improve the state of the game as most of it cannot be solely be blamed on the platform a better way to possibly address the lag issue would be to get enough people to spam the head of CCP to address the issue such as has been done with the port discussion Reserved

THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 06:49:00 - [11] - Quote Sicerly Yaw wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Yes because Dust is such a stable game where 16v16 never lags please refrain from pointless comments lag may be a serious problem considering the idea but if you aren't going to add any constructive ideas and or criticism I would prefer you not detract from a serious topic that I am trying to present mind you the general idea is to separate fresh blood from players that already have a handle on the game the rest is just more thoughts on what we can offer to level 5+ vets and or late-end game content I might add that I did comment of it possibly requiring a hardware upgrade (server side not ps3) and one is on the horizon possibly so in fact dust may just have the ability to handle such feats There was constructive criticism. Cuse is being a realist. Why bother shitting out ideas that will never see reality because of the limitations in set in place due to aging hardware? This isn't worth your time. e: All this will do is add more mouth breathers to sit at the bottom half of the leader board mooching off of the top 4-6 people to hope to get win while going 0/20 with 65 warpoints. The enemies of God stand broken before us. The light of the Reclaiming shines over them! 12/13/14 Never forget
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 06:59:00 - [12] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Sicerly Yaw wrote: CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Yes because Dust is such a stable game where 16v16 never lags please refrain from pointless comments lag may be a serious problem considering the idea but if you aren't going to add any constructive ideas and or criticism I would prefer you not detract from a serious topic that I am trying to present mind you the general idea is to separate fresh blood from players that already have a handle on the game the rest is just more thoughts on what we can offer to level 5+ vets and or late-end game content I might add that I did comment of it possibly requiring a hardware upgrade (server side not ps3) and one is on the horizon possibly so in fact dust may just have the ability to handle such feats There was constructive criticism. Cuse is being a realist. Why bother shitting out ideas that will never see reality because of the limitations in set in place due to aging hardware? This isn't worth your time. e: All this will do is add more mouth breathers to sit at the bottom half of the leader board mooching off of the top 4-6 people to hope to get win while going 0/20 with 65 warpoints. being a realist in a video game wow, I guess you don't really know much about dust and how it has changed but what I am suggesting is more then feasible now with your point about bottom feeders that's already a problem adding more players makes it less of a problem as well as increasing clones respectively bigger fights means a single person or a single squad has less impact overall and cant simply stomp the other team without respective losses as well as giving these bottom feeders an opportunity to be effective as a whole rather then being almost useless also I am not sure what part of that you consider constructive as it doesn't add anything useful to the conversation the same can be said about your post but at least you edited it to add in a semi valid point Reserved
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 73	Posted - 2015.10.14 07:09:00 - [13] - Quote I like how you know that doubling the number of players in a battle is more than feasible using certain measures. Care to enlighten us? Something is killing new player retention.
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 07:31:00 - [14] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: I like how you know that doubling the number of players in a battle is more than feasible using certain measures. Care to enlighten us? I might cite one of my previous comments that I made about MAG which carried out matches with up to 256 people in a single match on the ps3, you cant really compare the two directly but it is possible at the very least and one of my questions was if this would be possible with hardware upgrade server side as obviously the ps3 can handle it limiting the amount of resources out on the field such as installations and vehicles and staying away from large sockets in turn using maps with good terrain for large fights not only that but its already been proven possible that you can in fact have more then 16 players on either team at any given time there's multiple things that can be done to simply make it possible but the simplest thing to keep in mind is that increasing the number of players in any given match should not affect performance overall and if this were true then we should be seeing improvements in maps that lag when multiple people leave said match due to just that if the problem does arise that more players in a match causes more lag then we have a fundamental problem that needs to be addressed and the ultimatum would simply be to instead decrease the number of players in any given match and since dust was originally meant to be on a much bigger scale I think it's fair to assume that bigger battles aren't too far out of speculation at least again I would like to add that you aren't really adding anything constructive to the conversation, not to mention that you are going off on a tangent I would like to keep things on the main focus of the questions I have asked and the original post so I will kindly ask you to refrain from posting irrelevant comments Reserved
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 73	Posted - 2015.10.14 07:51:00 - [15] - Quote Constructive isn't limited to what you think is correct. You've made some pretty big statements. Your claim of 'it worked in one game so it must work for all games' is flawed. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Dust is already using most, if not all, of the PS3's available memory. Players absolutely do contribute to memory usage. Your client has to know where they are, what direction they're facing, what team they're on, whether they're crouching or jumping or falling or ADS or sprinting or shooting or meleeing or reloading or receiving damage or any valid combination of those, the type and tier and variation of the weapon they currently have equipped, what effect that weapon should produce when it's fired, the type and tier and variation of the suit they're wearing, what skin they've applied to that suit, how much shield they have, how much armor they have, their name, their corp, their current KD and their current WP. Doubling the amount of players would logically double the amount of spawnables, so thats the position and type and tier and variation of their uplinks, their hives, their REs and their grenades. How do you think the client remembers all that? Something is killing new player retention.
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.10.14 08:02:00 - [16] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Constructive isn't limited to what you think is correct. You've made some pretty big statements. Your claim of 'it worked in one game so it must work for all games' is flawed. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Dust is already using most, if not all, of the PS3's available memory. Players absolutely do contribute to memory usage. Your client has to know where they are, what direction they're facing, what team they're on, whether they're crouching or jumping or falling or ADS or sprinting or shooting or meleeing or reloading or receiving damage or any valid combination of those, the type and tier and variation of the weapon they currently have equipped, what effect that weapon should produce when it's fired, the type and tier and variation of the suit they're wearing, what skin they've applied to that suit, how much shield they have, how much armor they have, their name, their corp, their current KD and their current WP. Doubling the amount of players would logically double the amount of spawnables, so thats the position and type and tier and variation of their uplinks, their hives, their REs and their grenades. How do you think the client remembers all that? see the thing is I don't think you are even reading at all, all your questions have already been answered in my previous comment and you say I am wrong to assume that dust is anything like mag but in fact everything you mention is the point of why I cited that in the first place I even admitted that it may not be right to directly compare the two but I guess you didn't even bother to read that much if anyone's logic is flawed here its yours, also I don't think constructive criticism is only what I think is right but it certainly isn't insulting another opinion without even giving any feedback as to why it may be flawed in all fairness I did ask you not to comment things that don't add on to the conversation, going off of that I at least got you to mention something worth noting and to answer something that has already been answered although you may not have the capacity to understand it the reason I brought up mag is because it is a perfect example of what the ps3 is capable of, we may be at the limit of the ps3 but if dust can learn anything from mag is that it is possible to do things in a larger scale so if we have to dial some things back in dust to be able to achieve such feats then we should at least consider it or at least learn from it to try to improve things Reserved
Shaun Iwairo Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 73	Posted - 2015.10.14 08:48:00 - [17] - Quote OK well I think we just fundamentally disagree on whether doubling the amount of players is a matter of dialing a few things back. Something is killing new player retention.


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The enemies of God stand broken before us. The light of the Reclaiming shines over them!