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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
193
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Posted - 2015.10.08 14:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:One or two people running good gear won't cause a stomp, squading in pubs is much more powerful. xavier zor wrote:a lot of people here know this feeling. keep your random sh*t talking out of serious threads. I'm willing to concede I'm completely missing something here, but: Nearly every other fps has a 'squad' mechanic, yet very few of them suffer the frequency of pubstomping that Dust does. Other than the gear that squadded up mercs run, what makes squads in Dust so much more powerful?
Because any suit encountering a handful of randoms will still get melted. A squad however can choose to have a buffer tanked slayer and a logi with them.
The tactical advantages of teamwork in this game are far more important than any individual fit. A squad of 100 million SP players should have almost every role covered. They become a highly flexible lawn mower for unsquaded players.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
193
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Posted - 2015.10.08 14:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Daemonn Adima wrote:HOWDIDHEKILLME is under the impression that players in squads are a greater detriment to pub play than the performance disparity between new and veteran players.
As you said, every other fps has this feature, yet none of the same extreme stomping at the same frequency as Dust.
I don't know how he can ignore the numbers in this very thread and instead blame a tried and true mechanic.
Because you are looking at any single engagement as a strictly numerical relationship when it almost never is, and howdidhekillme is looking at a series of engagements or a whole match and seeing the larger effect that squad is having.
Adv gear can tangle with proto, heck properly fitted standard suits can put up a fight. In any single engagement, where both players stand still and just dump non missing shots until one dies, proto will always win, but fights in dust rarely happen that way.
What adv gear cannot overcome solo is the squad that keeps a third guy hanging around doing nothing but micro flanking while their back marker keeps the scans up .
No squad mode before meta locking would be better.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
193
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Posted - 2015.10.08 23:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Daemonn Adima wrote:What kind of drugs are you guys using that leads you to believe that squads are more of a detriment that the performance disparity between suits? I mean get real you ******* assclowns, both your posts are now hidden as you bring nothing to the table besides your anecdotal butt dynos. STFU or provide data and facts.
Because the disparity between proto and advanced is not as large as you make it out to be.
If you can't run adv and turn a profit, then get good probably applies.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
197
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Posted - 2015.10.09 14:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:some folk will say "but oh, a player who sucks will still suck in proto" blah blah blah.
yes, a player who sucks will still struggle in proto against good players in adv/pro gear. but a new player who is an experienced FPS in a basic laodout will struggle vs a half decent player fully kitted in proto. i worked it out once and there was around 800hp difference between a full proto setup suit vs a std suit with mlt (no skills applied) just as you drop out the clone vat.
whereas, a 100m vet vs a 1m noob in STD/MLT gear, the point difference is around 500-100 hp and damage difference is minimal. a good fps player can easily compensate against a small HP difference.
When the playerbase was a little more diverse i propositioned meta level based on sec status of system battle takes place, now our numbers are limited i've propositioned 'Academy+' basically a gamemode where meta is locked at MLT/STD, LAVs only Amb/Dom game mode. a place where vets and noobs can go in together, get noobs used to the game before going into the shark infested big pool of normal pubs. and for most vets it'd be a nice place to go and 'relax best you can away from all the try hards. make the isk earned be calculated based on loyalty rank, lower loyalty rank, higher isk payout and SP gain (inline with current pub payouts, no higher) and lower sp gain and isk gain for higher vets so no farming of isk (except alts obvs)
i think it'd relieve a lot of the stress that general pubs bring on due to proto tryhards at peak gaming times. pretty much everyone i know now barely plays in evenings, you can tell how the evebning is gonna go from the first 1 or 2 matches and we'll just log off and go play something more fun over weekend when it gets past about 8-9pm BST
There is not an 800 HP gap between full proto and std. Whenever you worked it out you were wrong.
At 36 HP per shield extender and 65 HP per plate there are not enough slots for you to create an 800 HP gap.
Even then you ignore that a suit running max eHP is taking the movement penalty from all those places making them much easier to hit, and also to avoid.
This myth of proto tryhards makes no sense to me. Why are people so opposed to people using their best stuff to win? Do some of you think that going into a match with a budget is actually making the game more fun for you?
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
200
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Posted - 2015.10.09 20:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Daemonn Adima wrote:Press is so dense, he doesn't realize when players start playing they have to budget or they can't afford to play how they want.
The only myth here is that you might be intelligent. But you're proving us all right about your level of comprehension.
I go full spend all the time, and play solo more than I PC, and certainly more often than I run FW.
If you are not crap, running advanced in pubs is good enough, and if you are bad, the gear won't change it.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
200
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Posted - 2015.10.09 20:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:
it was full proto vs full std so a std suit fit with all std tank modules and a proto suit of the same type with a full high end tank, it wasn't exaclty all proto but it was a suit that was built to have as many hp as possible same as the std. it was mainly the armour suits where the biggest difference and also back when STD suits had lower slots. a 3 low slot gal assault vs a 5 slot proto gall assault has a huge hp difference. things have changed slightly in recent patches but there is still a big difference. a new person doesn't have the fitting skills to get as much stuff on either so it will alwyas be like iceskating uphill.
with such a low playerbase, even with the matchmaking the way it is, there is very little way of getting away from try hards unless you're in a squad with other noobs. having a seperate meta locked mode for noobs and vets allows things to be a little more balanced
Oh, so your reference point about proto and standard balance was from before they gave standard suits a ton of slots.
That is an irrelevant comparison.
In the game that we are actually playing that 800 hp gap doesn't exist.
What is a tryhard to you? Because the way you seem to be using it would imply that it is anyone who can afford to run better gear longer than you can.
That is not a tryhard, just someone who is doing better at the fiscal side of the game.
Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
200
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Posted - 2015.10.10 04:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Daemonn Adima wrote:Press Attache wrote:Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:
it was full proto vs full std so a std suit fit with all std tank modules and a proto suit of the same type with a full high end tank, it wasn't exaclty all proto but it was a suit that was built to have as many hp as possible same as the std. it was mainly the armour suits where the biggest difference and also back when STD suits had lower slots. a 3 low slot gal assault vs a 5 slot proto gall assault has a huge hp difference. things have changed slightly in recent patches but there is still a big difference. a new person doesn't have the fitting skills to get as much stuff on either so it will alwyas be like iceskating uphill.
with such a low playerbase, even with the matchmaking the way it is, there is very little way of getting away from try hards unless you're in a squad with other noobs. having a seperate meta locked mode for noobs and vets allows things to be a little more balanced
Oh, so your reference point about proto and standard balance was from before they gave standard suits a ton of slots. That is an irrelevant comparison. In the game that we are actually playing that 800 hp gap doesn't exist. What is a tryhard to you? Because the way you seem to be using it would imply that it is anyone who can afford to run better gear longer than you can. That is not a tryhard, just someone who is doing better at the fiscal side of the game. Do you not realize players don't start with access to proto? Most of these arguments against stomping aren't coming from poor vets who "can't afford to run proto". You're not better at the game, you've just been playing it longer.
And if you cap out three weeks in a row, proto suit.
If you don't cap, but do play, within 6 weeks you will be at proto. Less if you run and stack boosters. A week for a proto gun.
The power gap is built in to the game by design, it helps as an economic incentive to new players to buy Aurum to shorten the grind.
You've been playing for a couple of months, you have(or should have) good core skills(level 4 at least) proto tank modules and a proto suit by now. If you don't have a proto suit, you should have at least a couple of proto weapons and advanced grenades.
You sound like you are stuck in militia gear all the time, which can't be true, and the gap between advanced and proto is not so great as to be insurmountable.
You can try and be condescending as much as you like, but I don't complain about proto, and squads, and tanks, and whatever will be next on the whine list.
You probably have more ground SP than I do, and going on the ground isn't terrible for me.
Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
200
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Posted - 2015.10.10 04:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Press Attache wrote:
Oh, so your reference point about proto and standard balance was from before they gave standard suits a ton of slots.
That is an irrelevant comparison.
In the game that we are actually playing that 800 hp gap doesn't exist.
What is a tryhard to you? Because the way you seem to be using it would imply that it is anyone who can afford to run better gear longer than you can.
That is not a tryhard, just someone who is doing better at the fiscal side of the game.
I think that last bit is a bit dishonest. It's well known that a large chuck of the playerbase have piles of isk behind them from old (and to an extent, current) broken PC payout mechanics. Of course they should run whatever they can pay for, especially if it gives them an advantage. But to say they run it because they manage their isk well is a bit of a stretch.
Not a large chunk. Most of the people I see running proto in pubs were not even around for the locking. More people than that have made much larger fortunes by trading and gear farming. Even more than them are apex runners who can find a good cheap fit that is effective and stack bank.
There will always be people with deeper wallets. There will always be a "tryhard" who cares more about winning than his wallet that match.
But putting on a proto suit doesn't make you invincible, and people who just want to blame getting their ass kicked on the opponent having better gear, and then their solution is to ban better gear are acting like scrubs.
Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
200
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Posted - 2015.10.10 04:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jonny D Buelle wrote:Daemonn Adima wrote:Press Attache wrote:Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:
it was full proto vs full std so a std suit fit with all std tank modules and a proto suit of the same type with a full high end tank, it wasn't exaclty all proto but it was a suit that was built to have as many hp as possible same as the std. it was mainly the armour suits where the biggest difference and also back when STD suits had lower slots. a 3 low slot gal assault vs a 5 slot proto gall assault has a huge hp difference. things have changed slightly in recent patches but there is still a big difference. a new person doesn't have the fitting skills to get as much stuff on either so it will alwyas be like iceskating uphill.
with such a low playerbase, even with the matchmaking the way it is, there is very little way of getting away from try hards unless you're in a squad with other noobs. having a seperate meta locked mode for noobs and vets allows things to be a little more balanced
Oh, so your reference point about proto and standard balance was from before they gave standard suits a ton of slots. That is an irrelevant comparison. In the game that we are actually playing that 800 hp gap doesn't exist. What is a tryhard to you? Because the way you seem to be using it would imply that it is anyone who can afford to run better gear longer than you can. That is not a tryhard, just someone who is doing better at the fiscal side of the game. Do you not realize players don't start with access to proto? Most of these arguments against stomping aren't coming from poor vets who "can't afford to run proto". You're not better at the game, you've just been playing it longer. Daemonn, we have been over this. Press Attache is a troll and an idiot who thinks that only his way is the right way and everyone else is wrong. Just ignore him and move on.
On look, the logistics officer for an 8 man corp. All the titles, none of the responsibility.
Saw you in a match today, your 5/0 with 265 WP must have been inspiring to your team.
Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
200
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Posted - 2015.10.12 13:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
So now its not only proto gear, but advanced as well?
What comes next?
Pretty sure you would be pushing for a starter fit only mode until you realized that someone with all their core skills to 5 would have a little bit more hp and suddenly that would invalidate you even trying.
That you equate better gear with a certain defeat is a sign you are defeated before the match has even begun. They could roll in militia and you would still be fighting them as if they were an officer fit squad.
Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
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Posted - 2015.10.18 13:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:I have an AK.O Assault and Commando. Proto stomps are a problem. I don't partake in stomps but they rampant. I have 34 million SP and I can't stand a stomp. Here is a solution. Each game mode will have a max level of equipment that you can use in each mode.
Ambush-MLT ans STD equip only
Acquisition-ADV,STD,MLT ONLY
Dom-Proto,ADV,STD,MLT only
Skirmish,FW,PC- Anything goes
So you have proto but people in proto gear are automatic losses for you? How does that work?
Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
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