| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
korrah silain
True Illuminate
114
   |
Posted - 2015.10.05 03:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
I used to have pity for you guys, thinking 'yeah they are pretty flimsy considering they are higher tier vehicles ment to support troops and allow transport, sure their go to tactic has become drop links on roofs to allow camping win but that's just because swarms eat them alive.'
Well I ran into something interesting for the first time today that almost won the game for the other team that has that well of pity drying up very quickly: a Myron.
So, I don't know what it was fitted with(I don't run vehicles myself) bug I do know that a standard swarmer on a lvl 3 minmando tends to bring down dropships, this one I guess had a shield hardener at least and as a result couldn't be touched. By anythi ng. He simply dodged the pc, and forges levelled at him and laughed at the swarms only to be chased off for some 20 seconds to repair the one hit of damage when his hardeners went down.
This isn't me saying this is unfair mind you, it is, to my mind fairly balanced, however what DOES get to me is the anti swarm qq culture flyboys have been perpetuating on this forum for as long as I can remember. At this point I just gotta say: worried about swarms? Run a Myron, want to gun by yourself solo at the same time, well I hate to break it to you but everyone has to make a choice between tanky and killy.
Now in the interest of fairness and curiosity I would be thrilled to hear from any flyboys out there about why I'm wrong.
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
|
Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
889
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 03:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
A standard dropship you can tank quite well, it has more slots and base HP. Also it's Shield Tank + Hardener against a explosive (-20%) type weapon.
If the forge guns were unable to hit i would be surprised, what was the DS doing?
ADS' have less tank but are more maneuverable, this helps in the fight against Forges but Swarms are unavoidable and hence the QQ
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
|
Anmol Singh
G0DS AM0NG MEN
986
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 03:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:A standard dropship you can tank quite well, it has more slots and base HP. Also it's Shield Tank + Hardener against a explosive (-20%) type weapon.
If the forge guns were unable to hit i would be surprised, what was the DS doing?
ADS' have less tank but are more maneuverable, this helps in the fight against Forges but Swarms are unavoidable and hence the QQ
Spot on. Swarms are unavoidable.
Sagaris lover!!!
Commando <3
|
korrah silain
True Illuminate
114
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 03:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
It was floating around using intervening cover, dropping altitude, raising it, etc. Regardless the forge did hit it once and it did maybe a quarter shield damage. Which was trivial.
To the swarms are unavoidable I say I have had my swarms out ran or juked into buildings pleanty of times, the point is the Myron seemed able to deal quite fine, so looking at the dropships qq it seems like its just complaining about not being able to kill everything AND not being able to avoid all the damages. Which is ridiculous regardless of how much a ship costs.
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
|
Sicerly Yaw
Corrosive Synergy
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 04:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
even a pimped out Myron will be downed by a coordinated breach fg strike
2 is usually enough 3 makes sure the job gets done tho
a pro breach fg can do over 2k shiled damge and 3k armor damage more or less at 100% efficiency (no reduction from hardeners not profile as those numbers have already been calculated in)
a myron at most can stack say about 5k shields without a hardener and about 3-4k with one
so even with a hardener on at 40% reduction two shots would hit for 1.2k each a combined total of 2.4k if the drop ship doesn't die to the impact or from losing control the charge up takes about 4.5 seconds and it only takes one more shot to take it down its the same either way pretty much hardener or no hardener, the problem is that the only anti shield weapon takes some skill to use but a max kubo users should easily deal with it if they can mange to connect the shots
a max minmando or a couple of them using swarms will easily take it down also and a single one can easily deny it from coming too close
now tanks are a different thing altogether since they have more things that can damge them most notably flux nades a shiled tank can easily be dealt with with a few flux nades and plc shots with the remaining armor being able to be taken out with any weapon even an smg, not to mention that tanks take more damge in their weak spots one major point being the under carriage this can be used to throw nades or proxies in front of tanks that do massive damage as well as compact re's that may or may not work most of the time
so to conclude I'd have to say that yes Arial denial is easily achieved and taking down armor DS can easily be done with the available AV while shiled DS could use a better counter in the form of an anti shiled heavy weapon that would work similarly to the FG
Reserved
|
Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
889
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 04:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
korrah silain wrote:It was floating around using intervening cover, dropping altitude, raising it, etc. Regardless the forge did hit it once and it did maybe a quarter shield damage. Which was trivial.
To the swarms are unavoidable I say I have had my swarms out ran or juked into buildings pleanty of times, the point is the Myron seemed able to deal quite fine, so looking at the dropships qq it seems like its just complaining about not being able to kill everything AND not being able to avoid all the damages. Which is ridiculous regardless of how much a ship costs.
That was a standard dropship, to kill anyone it would require a second player (gunner)
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
|
korrah silain
True Illuminate
114
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 08:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:korrah silain wrote:It was floating around using intervening cover, dropping altitude, raising it, etc. Regardless the forge did hit it once and it did maybe a quarter shield damage. Which was trivial.
To the swarms are unavoidable I say I have had my swarms out ran or juked into buildings pleanty of times, the point is the Myron seemed able to deal quite fine, so looking at the dropships qq it seems like its just complaining about not being able to kill everything AND not being able to avoid all the damages. Which is ridiculous regardless of how much a ship costs. That was a standard dropship, to kill anyone it would require a second player (gunner)
Which he had, and a pretty good one if I do say so. Also about the forge gun topics, I only mentioned it because I noticed he was the only other person with av, however that's not particularly on topic because usually I see piolets complaining about swarms because they track, etc. And as a result they have been nerfed a few times (and brought up a few times) about the only thing I disagreed with about the coming hot fix was the swarm range nerf, which was intended to help dropships piolets...well my point is that if you don't like getting swarmed run the shield tank dropships, I mean I don't complain when I get one shotted as a scout, or snuck when I'm a commando. It's the natural weakness and trade off in performance. Plus considering the small blasters are getting a splash buff a ds with two gunners might be viable for anti infantry now...
Also this is the first time I'm not here to gripe about tanks so...I don't care about tanks(not true I loath Maddie's but my point is that's irrelevant)
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
|
Trooper X
TROOPER Corp X
18
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 12:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Swarm Launchers are a joke...
The range is pathetic...
I'm embarrassed to even use the thing anymore...
I'm even more embarrassed for CCP. No company in EVE would produce such a useless piece of junk...
However, it must be noted. The number of good pilots is limited. Most can just about dump the thing on a roof, before it explodes. So although it's annoying, it's not completely without need...
The damage and movement angle nerf, I kinda agree with. It's just the lock-on range, which is the biggest joke...
TROOPER Corp X - Solo Merc - Blueberry Corp
|
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 12:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Trooper X wrote:
The damage and movement angle nerf, I kinda agree with. It's just the lock-on range, which is the biggest joke...
The damage isn't being nerfed. The range is only being nerfed by 14%. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
NDS ("Normal DS" as coined by Rattati) balancing is fundamentally different than ADS balancing due to the second player that needs to be on board to do anything worthwhile.
Currently NDS are mostly capable of sustaining incoming fire from any one player. The only things that can actually get an NDS are damage amped pro railguns (surprisingly common in pubs!) and triple damage modded pro-AFGs. Prototype Swarms aren't an issue, regardless of fitting, though I didn't test with officer SL recently.
However, since any effective NDS has two occupants it also needs to be able to compensate for two players on the enemy team, which they currently quite simply don't. As long as one player keeps driving away the NDS with a railgun the two players in the ADS are almost completely useless to their team. Pulling an NDS for support fire is an automatically losing move if anyone on the enemy team can pull any rail HAV.
Unfortunately NDS also can't be useful in any other role. Troop deployment is done much better with a scout with uplinks.
As for ways to remedy this:
A. Make rails worse against moving targets by increasing the charge time or reducing projectile speed.
B. Buff NDS with +5% CPU/PG until they pick up.
(I wouldn't mind tiered NDS at all with the current ones becoming the ADV chassis.)
C. mCRU fix, anyone? |
|
|
Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
959
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 13:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fire-and-forget weapons that never miss airborne targets need a downside, and effective range feels the fairest one to go with. And I say this as a dedicated AV'er. Swarms have always been too good against ADS, too poor against double-hardened armour tanks. Go figure.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |