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Baal Omniscient
Qualified Scrub
2
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Posted - 2015.10.02 11:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
What it boils down to is this: No single player should be unkillable by another single player on basis of gear or SP totals alone.
The problem with 1v1 swarms v dropships is that it nearly never happens. A swarmer has to deal with all infantry as well as vehicles and installations. As an ADS pilot you have to deal with some infantry, all turrets and vehicles. There's almost always multiple people shooting at you no matter which side of the fight you are on and it's silly to say one person should have an advantage over the other because one sank more ISK into the fight. In chasing a vehicle, a swarmer often loses 1-2 fits simply attempting to get a lock on the vehicle and only has a sidearm with which to defend themselves against the flood of officer gear storming through pub matches. In the scheme of things that's 1-2 fits lost attempting to get a shot off, so when you finally manage to get off a shot or two and your target is gone before you can finish it it's extremely frustrating. That's the current state of things. My swarm fit is 171,720 ISK and that's with a BPO Krin's damage mod equipped. When I lose 2 fits struggling through officer gear with nothing but an SMG, finally get a shot or two off and manage to get one vehicle damage WP bump it's not a good feeling to 'scare them off so they leave us alone'.
I'm not saying that assault dropships or dropships in general always feel rewarding to play. It feels incredably unrewarding to be shoo'd off away from the fight every time you get close to it, being constantly pushed away by AV is a very serious issu and I understand that. I've piloted dropships on and off throughout my Dust career and it can be one of the most frustrating experiences there is in Dust. However being a swarmer can be just as frustrating, just as unrewarding and just as rage inducing as being an ADS or DS pilot.
That said, there is no scenario in which one player should be able to laugh off the attacks of another. No role should be anywhere near invincible in a 1v1 fight because it's just not right. As a dropship pilot you are a force multiplier. You can rain death from the skies out of reach of many AV weapons, outmaneuver all of it either by speed or evasion, and can attack with weapons that reach much farther than swarms can even lock on from. Of course draw distance is a real issue, not being able to see people on the ground is a serious problem, but it is not the fault of the people on the ground and they should not be penalized for it any more than tanks should be penalized because RE's don't stick properly to them when they are moving quickly.
Both dropships and swarms need changes to make them roles that are less frustrating and more fun to play without breaking either. I just don't have it in me to dive into that mess again after the lack of interest shown by CCP to make large changes in them to make it so. All I am willing to say is that pricing for dropships in general needs another look so they are more affordable to lose.
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
I GÖú Puppies
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
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Baal Omniscient
Qualified Scrub
2
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Posted - 2015.10.04 09:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:YOU DONT USE VEHICLES
VEHICLES HAVE TO DEAL WITH - EVERY WEAPON IN THE ******* GAME TOO SMARTASS. EVERYTHING INFANTRY HAS TO DEAL WITH AND (MORE.) SO SHUT UP UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.
I have been playing this game since 7 months before open beta. I've played every playstyle there is to run, I've experienced ever gameplay method in every patch and hotfix that has been released since August 2012, and I've dealt with whiners like you on the forums almost as long. Until you grow up a bit keep your binkey in your mouth so that garbled ignorant trash doesn't keep pouring out.
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
I GÖú Puppies
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
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Baal Omniscient
Qualified Scrub
2
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Posted - 2015.10.04 11:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:@Baal: Thing is that you don't need to run a 170+k ISK suit to have top tier offensive potential. A STD Commando/Assault with PRO damage mods and mostly standard stuff but with a Wiyrkomi will cost around 30-60k depending on fitting/skills/BPOs yet will hit just as hard as your 170k suit.
On the flip side, I've tried making some 'cheap' ADS fits, using STD and/or MLT stuff only and they come out to around 260k...and are shitfits because they just die in seconds.
Honestly, I don't see Swarms/ADSs ever being balanced until we move away from the current mechanics of the Swarm.
The survivability of a cheap AV suit drops as the price drops however. Sure my suit costs me a lot, but it can takes 3 missiles to kill (2 if I'm hit directly). Being one-shotted by a missile isn't really an option when trying to kill something that shoots missiles. Also, getting a chance to fire on a vehicle in a cheap AV fit (especially with the officer spam that's become so popular) is nearly impossible because you are constantly being killed by the flood of people who see your gimped by having an AV only weapon.
That said, I'm all for changing swarm launcher mechanics. It's just a matter of how we do it.
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
I GÖú Puppies
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
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