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Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.09.28 04:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:The suit's encroachment into other roles is a bit annoying! The min assault is now used often as a sprint deployment fit that can beat scouts into to city, while having superior survivability?
Scouts can easily beat the min assault into the city except for maybe the amarr scout (though I think it has a stamina advantage and would win anyway).
The rest of your posts are about EWAR, which really does shut down min assaults if they are speed tanking. If you cant utilize wall hacks to stop someone from flanking or getting into shotgun range, you need to get good.
This complaint is equal to complaining about tanked scouts, or complaining about myofibril fits, these fits just dont work against a competent enemy, because they are very easily countered with some situational awareness and with some aim.
I use a shotgun min assault fitting quite a bit, and if there is a scan spammer on the other team, the fitting is done. You have to switch to scout or to some rifle fitting, or you wont be able to accomplish anything. |
Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 09:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:"I use a shotgun min assault fitting" says it all, and there is no way any scout is taking you out, wall hacks or no wall hacks?! It's a straight counter scout fit and you know it! They don't bring it to the city to fight heavies lol! It's their because it's fast, shield tanked, and no Ewar is gonna stop you! I know where he is, but he's far too tough to kill before being killed!
You say this like I dont have 29 other fittings, including 4 that are CQC scout shotgun fits. Its not a counter scout to good scouts because good scouts use EWAR and stealth. This fitting works against bad teams, if you take it into even a mediocre level PC you will get your ass handed to you by every single thing out there.
Bradric Banewolf wrote:In PC he's gonna gank you or run away, regen, then gank you lol! It can get to any point before you hack it, or just shotgun you and hack it back. Heavies nor assaults can catch it, and when you do he's got a bloody shotgun! Heavies trying to hmg 500 shield on a speedy fit is laughable lol! I can kill them in the open all day, but as a scout trying to infiltrate you know d*mn well that the min assault with shotgun is being used strictly to counter the scouts! Same goes for the min assault myo suits!
In PC hes going to be scanned at all times, and heavies will have absolutely no problem mauling the **** out of him if he gets anywhere near them.
Bradric Banewolf wrote:You wanna tell me how a scout is supposed to kill it when it's leaping through the air, and one MD shot can kill you?
I thought we were talking about shotgun min assaults? Apparently now we're talking about mass driver/myo fits? Maybe you should concentrate on not being seen by these guys if youre in a squishy scout suit. Thats the point of the scout suit. If you want to fight head to head then dont use it.
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Wait I know! Your impeccable gun game kills it all the time right mr. "I use a shotgun assault fitting quite a bit"?
Get out of here if you're just biased, and can't look past what is easy for the sake of balance in the game. You same guys swore for months that the AR was "fine"?!
THE ASSAULT IS GETTING A BONUS TO THE AR BECAUSE IT WAS NOT FINE!
My gun game is not great, but its plenty great to rip up a min assault when hes scanned.
Im biased towards sanity, you can't look past what annoys you and see that shotgun min assault has a massive exploitable achilles heel that makes it absolute **** against anyone who knows what they are doing.
Also Ive never sworn that the AR is fine, at best I think it feels underpowered due to the current meta which is dramatically shifted towards armor tanking. And the assault is getting a bonus to the AR because their previous bonus was trash, and the Gal Assault wasnt as good as the min and amarr assaults. Everyone knows the bonuses for Gal and Cal assaults are underwhelming and have been for a while. |
Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 18:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
SgtNoNeck Wasssup wrote:Bradric Banewolf wrote:Perfect example of min assaults running the field as tanked scouts! Scout v min assault encounters are literally landslide victory to min assault, and Ewar means squat in a PC battle where the players themselves know how to hide in plain site like I do! Ewar takes a whole knew meaning in PC! https://youtu.be/CnCKL4TG9NI  1. You listed a pc where someone was using a bon's vs morons. 2. You have to run 2 to 3 kin kats to really make the Min assault fast extremely hard to fit with decent tank 3. Not all Min assault users use a Shotguns and if you base a nerf on the Min assault because of Shotguns you're a ******* idiot 4. Min assault is my main suit I have had it since uprising. If you think its so OP spec into it use it and find out yourself. 5. Considering how OP Gal and Cal assaults are going to be after the hotfix you really shouldn't be looking at the min assault.
Not only that but I think he was scanned a grand total of one time the entire match (a scan that failed by the way, indicating it was some moron using a basic or advanced scanner in PC).
Also: min assault was already nerfed pretty hard in the mobility department when stamina regen for their suits was cut across the board. A nerf that I advocated and was well deserved. Right now min assault is very well balanced and amarr assault is the outlier on the OP side (but then it was the outlier before the stam regen nerf anyway), meanwhile gal and cal assaults need various amounts of help. |
Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 19:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:SgtNoNeck Wasssup wrote:Bradric Banewolf wrote:Perfect example of min assaults running the field as tanked scouts! Scout v min assault encounters are literally landslide victory to min assault, and Ewar means squat in a PC battle where the players themselves know how to hide in plain site like I do! Ewar takes a whole knew meaning in PC! https://youtu.be/CnCKL4TG9NI 1. You listed a pc where someone was using a bon's vs morons. 2. You have to run 2 to 3 kin kats to really make the Min assault fast extremely hard to fit with decent tank 3. Not all Min assault users use a Shotguns and if you base a nerf on the Min assault because of Shotguns you're a ******* idiot 4. Min assault is my main suit I have had it since uprising. If you think its so OP spec into it use it and find out yourself. 5. Considering how OP Gal and Cal assaults are going to be after the hotfix you really shouldn't be looking at the min assault. Not only that but I think he was scanned a grand total of one time the entire match (a scan that failed by the way, indicating it was some moron using a basic or advanced scanner in PC). Also: min assault was already nerfed pretty hard in the mobility department when stamina regen for their suits was cut across the board. A nerf that I advocated and was well deserved. Right now min assault is very well balanced and amarr assault is the outlier on the OP side (but then it was the outlier before the stam regen nerf anyway), meanwhile gal and cal assaults need various amounts of help. He was scanned as there were gal logies running around in bravo, 1 of which I know to have pro gal with scans, but for whatever reason the QQ on the forums indicates that being scanned means dying lol! "Naw bro I can't go forward, I've just been scanned" lol! Being scanned does not equate to being stopped! I've ran min assault tons, and I definitely never gave two f*cks about being scanned lol! Everybody is scanned in PC! Do you think we all just stopped what we're doing? Lol!
Except that he wasnt scanned at all in the entire video. If I missed him actually being hit by a successful scan give me a time stamp and let me know. Otherwise you're full of ****.
The team he was against was absolutely terrible. Contrast that with the scans they obviously had going, where they had everyone on point B lit up for the vast majority of the game.
And here you think min assault is good because some guy is playing against a **** team. Well guess what, when the shotgunner never gets scanned and he repeatedly gets to run up behind heavies and their logis while they are perma scanned, hes going to have a field day. Anyone would have a field day.
The fact is if a shotgunner is scanned and the heavies hes pushing up against are ready for him, he'll get wrecked. Not only that by while hes getting shut down by the scan hes incredibly vulnerable to a scout cruising up behind him and 2 shotting him before he can turn around.
And you try and counter this claim with this video? Where the guy isnt scanned a single ******* time and hes toying with a bunch of crappy players and still dying a bunch of times? Get out of here.
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Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 19:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Heres a better example from the same person
This is a much more competitive battle right here, with the same team. Random Gunz vs. Fatal Absolution.
You see he still went kill positive but didnt do nearly as good, the enemies are actually awake for this fight, and you can see people like Fusion Commander on the other team who was running a scout + bons and some other guys actually get better scores than him.
Also hes providing commentary on the video which is mildly interesting.
The fact is the Bons is OP and needs to be toned down, but shotgun/min assault is not. Get over it. |
Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 19:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Heres a better example from the same personThis is a much more competitive battle right here, with the same team. Random Gunz vs. Fatal Absolution. You see he still went kill positive but didnt do nearly as good, the enemies are actually awake for this fight, and you can see people like Fusion Commander on the other team who was running a scout + bons and some other guys actually get better scores than him. Also hes providing commentary on the video which is mildly interesting. The fact is the Bons is OP and needs to be toned down, but shotgun/min assault is not. Get over it. Fusion commander runs a tanked Scotsman with a bon's in almost every PC recently lol! Do you even PC bro? I could take that "sleep" PC team and clean up so many of you it's comical lol! Done it against "random gunz" and others, and they can varify that I did it with players who hadn't broke 20 mil yet! Before you waste time pointing out different team levels, know what it is you're talking about! When you lead a team into battle let me know! o7
So how do you explain fusion commander with bons/gal scout doing way better than the guy running bons/min assault? How does this prove your point that min assault is OP?
Silver says in the video that its because Fusion can prey on the bad people on his team, which Im sure is partially true, but that narrative kind of falls down when you realize fusion commander kills him one on one quite a few times in that video.
And I dont care how good that sleeping team could do with a good FC, fact is in that particular battle they played like trash. |
Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 19:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Please get into PC! 
Framerate fix when? |
Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 20:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Bradric Banewolf wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:Heres a better example from the same personThis is a much more competitive battle right here, with the same team. Random Gunz vs. Fatal Absolution. You see he still went kill positive but didnt do nearly as good, the enemies are actually awake for this fight, and you can see people like Fusion Commander on the other team who was running a scout + bons and some other guys actually get better scores than him. Also hes providing commentary on the video which is mildly interesting. The fact is the Bons is OP and needs to be toned down, but shotgun/min assault is not. Get over it. Fusion commander runs a tanked Scotsman with a bon's in almost every PC recently lol! Do you even PC bro? I could take that "sleep" PC team and clean up so many of you it's comical lol! Done it against "random gunz" and others, and they can varify that I did it with players who hadn't broke 20 mil yet! Before you waste time pointing out different team levels, know what it is you're talking about! When you lead a team into battle let me know! o7 So how do you explain fusion commander with bons/gal scout doing way better than the guy running bons/min assault? How does this prove your point that min assault is OP? Silver says in the video that its because Fusion can prey on the bad people on his team, which Im sure is partially true, but that narrative kind of falls down when you realize fusion commander kills him one on one quite a few times in that video. And I dont care how good that sleeping team could do with a good FC, fact is in that particular battle they played like trash. Everyone has their tough ones.... but I've seen more vids of DEATH CARD, than uh.... whoever that is you're in there, on vids not making excuses and putting in work! Must be nice to know everything from the bench....
Avoid the point and make personal attacks, looks like your debate ready with those tactics.
Im not the best around but Ill put my abilities up against any player and be comfortable with the results, but that doesnt really matter regarding the question above I gave you about Gal Scout vs. Min Assault, why is it that the guy using the Gal Scout did significantly better than the guy using the Min Assault? |
Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 20:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Statically in those encounters it's a known fact that teams want min assault to take, counter scouts, and hold the city! You specifically searched for a known anomaly in fusion commander lol! I could go show you about 20 scouts that could do the same thing lol! I'm not saying I absolutely can not kill them, but I am saying the min assault is CLEARLY better than the scout of any race at the role, specifically in close quarters!
This isn't being denied by any of you, just debated?! Which has already confirmed my point. One of the most critical points of any PC, since you don't know, is initial contact! This is where the min assault is crushing scouts to the point that there are teams just running in 6 min assaults deep, not trying to get there 1st, but to simply kill the scouts that did and counter hack.
Fusion commander has been running slayer scout since day lol! Is that your one comparison? That's like me going to get a vid of Cyrius Li Moody and showing you how heavies do bad against min scout in it's OP hay day lol! Dude slaughtered entire squads of heavies and logis, but I'm going to use it to prove that gal heavy is fine in comparison to amarr heavy?!
Really?!
Ask yourself, are you helping the community get closer to greater balance in roles, or just helping yourself in the pubs?
I could've easily stayed min and amarr assault to pad my kd like so many others, but instead, like so many others, I saw how unbalanced they were. Especially the amarr assault, and have been advocating for better balance. Don't confuse balance with advantage! Alot of you do! The suit's should all have advantages and disadvantages!
What I'm talking about is the clear fact that the min assaults disadvantage, low ehp, is the one disadvantage that means nothing to them as they slay just fine ehp be d*mned!
Show me where low ehp has stopped them, and also show me another disadvantage? I can't find any, and they are capable of taking on any suit in tank, speed, Ewar, firepower, and so many others! Not just flat out, but it can get an advantage in one way or another on every suit in the game, and you can't tell me every other suit can do that!
It's specific advantage over scouts is shield tank, and not matching speed, but enough to make the scout naked if it wants to outrun a min assault. While the min assault is shielded to it's ears in enough shield to withstand multiple attackers of different types!
I didnt specifically search for Fusion Commander, he was literally in the next video I looked at from the same guy, which I only viewed because it was a game against FA, which is a much better team than the one he was fighting against in the original video posted. And I mentioned him only because he directly refutes your central claim.
As for denying min assault is better: yes I deny it. I think the min assault and the gal scout are pretty evenly matched, and have different strong points and different weaknesses. If you were, however, to compare min assault to the min or amarr scout, yes you would have a point there, but if you're going to say scouts in general, then no, the min assault isnt "better".
As to advocating for better balance, like Ive said before Ive advocated for and received a nerf to minmatar stamina regen, which I recognized (well before anyone else as far as I know of) as a huge balance issue. In addition Im currently advocating for nerfs to amarr assault (either the suit itself, or more appropriately the rediculously effective bonus it gets to rediculously effective weapons, both of which need to be rebalanced). I just dont think the min assault needs to be changed right now. Some things should be improved (amarr scout and cal assault needs alot of help, and cal scout and gal assault need a bit of help as well) but I think minmatar assault is about right. I have most of these suits, and I use them all on a regular basis so I'd like to have them all balanced reasonably well.
And yes the minmatar assault is more versatile than most other suits. Given the 4/4 slot layout Im pretty sure this is by design, but it also means they will never be able to armor tank better than an amarr assault, or rep tank better than a gal assault or shield tank (haehaheaheahe) better than a caldari assault. They can make some great speed assault fits, but thats about it in terms of what they do better than the other assaults.
To give you an idea of how I see it in absolute terms:
Min assault is about even with gal scout, marginally better than gal assault and cal scout, way better than cal assault or amarr scout, and significantly worse than the amarr assault. |
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