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maybe deadcatz
Horizons' Edge No Context
866
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Posted - 2015.09.27 03:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
But the gal logi and creodron flux active scanners are the op combo. Ran scanners on my ghillie gal scout to really get a feel.
And came up with some observations.
1. "Scan attempt prevented messages." If there are no havs/lavs near you and you aren't in in a 18db scout suit,that usually means someone just used a low tier scanner.(say you have damps 5,but no cmplx damps on your scout suit,only proto scanners will pick you up. )if you get the prevented message it pretty much means someone is using a low teir scanner and is in the area.(ie free kill)
2. All the scanners scan at their precision level for 100m and less with the exception of flux variants that scan at 150m to 200m away.
3. Generally the active scanner is best as it is the most versatile for most situations(I use two proto active scanners on my intel gal scout to contantly ping enemies and reveal them to my squad+plus their equipment.)
4.there's only one 200m scanner variation available. The flux. This scanner when weilded in pairs by the gal logi provides constant 200m permascans due to the extended visability time it receives from the gallente logistics suit bonus.
Scanners are op because of the flux variant and the gal logi. One can stick on two of them into the gal logi suit and pretty much just keep the team permanently scanned(sort of.)
There's a few ways to make scanners less of a topic to whine about.
1.nerf or remove the visibility bonus that gal logistics get.(I'd prefer nerfing it to 5% per level instead of removing it altogether.) 2.nerf flux scanner visibility time to reduce permascan capabilities.(Im not a fan of this one. Kinda.)(kinda makes it a long range warning scanner instead of a permanent radar when a gal logi weilds two or more) 3.limit the amount of scanners you can carry of the same type to one of each variant.(pretty easy solution that doesn't affect gameplay to much)
100m scanners are fine.(using them tactically just makes people salty when they find out you weren't
But the 200m scanners become too good in the hands of a gallenge logistics. The bonues plus the scanners themselves are ridiculous.
Dust 514:Plasma is magic.
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 03:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
We should have a 1.7 scanner throwback...
Anyways Ewar and scanners need an overhaul. I feel we have to many scanner which some are redundant, also add a minor scan falloff.
AmarrFTW
"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Not For Sale- Sanders 2016
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Jakkal Shoobah
Eastern Star Recon Group
248
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Posted - 2015.09.27 03:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree with you that the flux is op when used with a gal logi. It removes the whole user error because of its stats. It is a problem with the scanner not the gal logi.
If you compare the stats of the vanilla scanner vs the flux from basic to proto you find that the flux has a really big ******* problem in stats .
Meters is range. Up is light up. Down is cool down. Prec is precision.
Active scanner - 100 meters, 60 degrees, 5s up, 15 down,46 prec
Flux active scanner - 150 meters, 30 degrees, 8 up, 20 down, 46 prec
Credron Active Scanner- same as basic expect 28 prec
Credron flux active scanner - 200 meters, 90 degrees, 8 up, 30 down, 28 precsion.
For no ******* reason the flux gets 30% extra range with 3 TIMES THE SCAN DEGREES. You could argue that the extra cool down increase warrants an upgrade to its other stats, but that is not how scanners work. They always maintain the same light up to cool down ratio from the different tiers. The only exceptions are the proximity( only a proto variant) and the LP store one.
A more reasonable scanner is the quantum. Comparing the advanced quantum to the duvolle quatum it was made within reason. The quantum maintains a range of 100 and 60 degrees in all variants. The advanced has 15 up and 30 down. Proto has 20 up and 40 down. Precison is of course different, but the ratio is maintained.
The creodron flux is a ******* POS outlier when it comes to scanner balance. This is bad. The federation duvolle active scanner should hold the place as the outlier. It should be the absolute best scanner because all other races have their LP variant equipment as better than proto in every aspect.
While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
239
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Posted - 2015.09.27 04:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd like to point out that the basic idea of a long-range, wide-angle scanner is bad design, bad balance, and probably scientifically inaccurate.
The Proximity scanners should have the widest angle, as they have the shortest range. They need that wide angle in order to get a good picture of their nearby surroundings. Flux scanners, OTOH, are a long-range scanner. For one, they don't need a super-wide angle- you'll get plenty of area coverage from leveraging the long range. For two, they shouldn't have wide-angle coverage because it then leads to the that scanner being considered generally "better" than others.
There's also the issue that scanners have some kind of ack-basswards progression. Stable at ADV only, Flux at STD and PRO only, Proximity at only PRO. Quantum being ADV/PRO only is okay, IMO- but the Stable and Flux variants are basically "derp, I dunno" for whoever arranged them.
Having an ADV Proxy scanner would be great too.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 04:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
If the Flux proto scanner did about 200-400 damage to the user on activation, it would actually make sense for those stats. You're not gonna use it on a standard suit, and it'd gonna have far more than 400 HP. No more Permascan, because you'd literally kill yourself, but used in rational bursts, it could help your team a good deal.
Plus that would make the idea of "Prototype" which means an experimental build that has errors... actually their namesake. Enhanced power for enhanced drawbacks.
Besides, the person throwing out the scans isn't going to be in combat if used in a group. You typically don't use Proto scanners unless you have some kind of plan to protect your investment, such as grouping up.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Vicious Minotaur
2
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Posted - 2015.09.27 04:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
The only good scanner is a dead one.
#killallscanners #cullthescanners #scannergenocide #imaretardforusinghashtags #seriouslyfuckhashtags #andmeforusingthem #andimnotevenusingthemright
I am a minotaur.
Beware my poop.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 08:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
I feel if they swapped the Gal logi precision bonus for something like cooldown, the suit would still be excellent at scanning, but it would be more feasible for people to hide with dampeners. Better counter play.
Perhaps the focussed scanner's precision should then be buffed so you still get an almost guaranteed scan on scouts, but the range should be nerfed to 50m to stop people just using focussed scanners to scan everyone. Make it more limited to it's purpose of scanning scouts, who will generally try to sneak in close. Especially since the cooldown would be shorter on Gal logis. |
Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
771
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Posted - 2015.09.27 08:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
All I know is i really get pissed off when i have to pull my gal scout out and even then in getting scanned by lp scanners. Even on my proto scout having to put 3 complex damps and a advanced cloak (for the bonus) takes up alot of cpu/pg and restricts you .
I agree with most of your statements
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Mejt0
Made in Poland... E-R-A
2
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Posted - 2015.09.27 09:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
That is exaclty what everybody repeats. The problem doesn't lay in being scanned. It lays in being permamently scanned.
Though Flux scanner needs a tweak or two (compared to other scanners) you can aswell fix it by making all scanners share a single 'use'. Or a single 'use' for certain group (flux, focused, original, proximity).
Modern society is lacking in empathy
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 11:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:That is exaclty what everybody repeats. The problem doesn't lay in being scanned. It lays in being permamently scanned.
Though Flux scanner needs a tweak or two (compared to other scanners) you can aswell fix it by making all scanners share a single 'use'. Or a single 'use' for certain group (flux, focused, original, proximity). I see there being two ways to go to balance scanners.
You either reduce the effectiveness of scans so that being scanned is less bad/common, so permascan is reduced, but keep it difficult to hide (same precision). Such as implementing "single shared use". It's a bit of a lazy option though as it doesn't require any effort from the players.
Or you keep the permascan and make it easier to counter with dampeners. This method rewards counterplay and encourages more diverse fittings and playstyles.
Or go with both methods. |
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Death Shadow117
Wolf Pack Special Forces Rise Of Legion.
798
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Posted - 2015.09.27 12:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Instead of just nerfing scanners im pretty sure most people would rather you be able to see the persons that's scanning cevron lit up like a Christmas tree for how long the scan runs. Makes it easier to find scanners and kill them while not having to have one of your own. |
Death Shadow117
Wolf Pack Special Forces Rise Of Legion.
798
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 12:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:If the Flux proto scanner did about 200-400 damage to the user on activation, it would actually make sense for those stats. You're not gonna use it on a standard suit, and it'd gonna have far more than 400 HP. No more Permascan, because you'd literally kill yourself, but used in rational bursts, it could help your team a good deal.
Plus that would make the idea of "Prototype" which means an experimental build that has errors... actually their namesake. Enhanced power for enhanced drawbacks.
Besides, the person throwing out the scans isn't going to be in combat if used in a group. You typically don't use Proto scanners unless you have some kind of plan to protect your investment, such as grouping up. no that's a bad idea on so many levels but ill point out the obvious one of : he could jeep using it no matter how much healt he has if a min logi just sits behind him with reps then thyll have an orbital and the cycle repeats. |
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 15:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Scanners are perfectly fine.
If it was a 360 degree scan I would agree but seeing as they are only in a wedge direction, even if you keep those scans going there is so much more of the map that they cannot keep perma scanned.
The C.E.O. of G.L.O.R.Y,
(~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 16:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
i dont see them as op at all
you have to run a proto gal logi to perma scan the team and scanning gives you nothing for wp ..its literally like the worst role
you spend all your time doing nothing but providing intel with little to no rewards you dont even rank on the leaderboards compared to other logis you make crap for isk so you cant cover losses ...
that to me is a balancing factor lol
if your gunna nerf scanners you should buff intel rewards to 25 wp just like spawns and kill assists
gal logis under perform in wp regardless of whether or not the gal logi double flux scanner is broken that needs to be fixed
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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Summa Militum
Art.of.Death
914
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Posted - 2015.09.27 16:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:But the gal logi and creodron flux active scanners are the op combo. Ran scanners on my ghillie gal scout to really get a feel.
And came up with some observations.
1. "Scan attempt prevented messages." If there are no havs/lavs near you and you aren't in in a 18db scout suit,that usually means someone just used a low tier scanner.(say you have damps 5,but no cmplx damps on your scout suit,only proto scanners will pick you up. )if you get the prevented message it pretty much means someone is using a low teir scanner and is in the area.(ie free kill)
2. All the scanners scan at their precision level for 100m and less with the exception of flux variants that scan at 150m to 200m away.
3. Generally the active scanner is best as it is the most versatile for most situations(I use two proto active scanners on my intel gal scout to contantly ping enemies and reveal them to my squad+plus their equipment.)
4.there's only one 200m scanner variation available. The flux. This scanner when weilded in pairs by the gal logi provides constant 200m permascans due to the extended visability time it receives from the gallente logistics suit bonus.
Scanners are op because of the flux variant and the gal logi. One can stick on two of them into the gal logi suit and pretty much just keep the team permanently scanned(sort of.)
There's a few ways to make scanners less of a topic to whine about.
1.nerf or remove the visibility bonus that gal logistics get.(I'd prefer nerfing it to 5% per level instead of removing it altogether.) 2.nerf flux scanner visibility time to reduce permascan capabilities.(Im not a fan of this one. Kinda.)(kinda makes it a long range warning scanner instead of a permanent radar when a gal logi weilds two or more) 3.limit the amount of scanners you can carry of the same type to one of each variant.(pretty easy solution that doesn't affect gameplay to much)
100m scanners are fine.(using them tactically just makes people salty when they find out you weren't
But the 200m scanners become too good in the hands of a gallenge logistics. The bonues plus the scanners themselves are ridiculous.
Scanners should be limited to one per person. Do not screw with my GalScout suit bonus. |
Thug Muff1n
Cosmic Dough
0
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Posted - 2015.09.28 04:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Don't be such a pro donut. |
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