DUST Search - Good bye scrambler rifle.

axis alpha wrote:

deezy dabest wrote:

axis alpha wrote:

deezy dabest wrote:

You also realize this is more typical CCP bullshit of buffing shields through nerfing the ScR right?

I am glad to see we have come full circle back to the garbage of the past.

This community will never be happy. Someone is always gonna cry and get what they want. They will advocate their lives to get what they want. Yeah I complain but not to the extent to some others. Its always gonna go back and forth. But this time around they are making it so the weapons are racial specific and can be utilized best with paired racial suits (assaults).

This is only neutering the idea of being able to fit what you want. Forcing players to fit certain suits to run a weapon goes against all that is New Eden. Sure in Eve ships get great bonuses to weapons but those weapons are not 100% useless on every other suit.

We have also very much proven in the past that buffing one thing through nerfing another is just a vicious circle that leads to balance never being reached and FOTMs becoming the only option for new players who do not have the skill or SP to fight FOTM with anything besides FOTM.

Dumping this idea of buffing through nerfing was the best thing Rattati ever did but that is obviously making its way out the window. CCP does not care as long as it leads to selling more respecs and warbarge components.

It is no wonder this game is slowly burning to the ground.

My thing is I won't use a weapon if I KNOW it's op because it's just gonna get nerfed. So I don't have the grieve like you are right now. I understand what you are saying though. It is a cycle I also thought we had gotten out of. I never had a huge problem with the scr but it got nerfed hard. I'm sure it'll get buffed.........and then nerf the ar.

++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 11:27:00 - [1] - Quote The weapon will now be total trash on anything besides on Amarr assault. Newbies will be totally unable to kill with this weapon so no new ScR users will be popping up anytime soon. I am glad that we could come up with a band aid to make sure the weapon is only viable after spending a few million SP. Typical CCP I suppose. Introduce huge skill bonuses on certain suits and then only balance around those bonuses effectively nulling anyone else. This is why we will never have a new player experience worth speaking of. Buy more boosters if you want to be able to use anything besides an assault rifle. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 11:36:00 - [2] - Quote Regnier Feros wrote: deezy dabest wrote: The weapon will now be total trash on anything besides on Amarr assault. Newbies will be totally unable to kill with this weapon so no new ScR users will be popping up anytime soon. I am glad that we could come up with a band aid to make sure the weapon is only viable after spending a few million SP. Typical CCP I suppose. Introduce huge skill bonuses on certain suits and then only balance around those bonuses effectively nulling anyone else. This is why we will never have a new player experience worth speaking of. Buy more boosters if you want to be able to use anything besides an assault rifle. Stop overreacting Run a ScR on a new character and watch what happens. The thing was barely useful without being fully skilled as is and now is just going to be trash. I really don't care since I have both the weapon and the suit maxed out I am just sick and tired of seeing diversity for new players kicked in the nuts because CCP wants to base things on skills and then nerf it so that the only way it is viable is with those skills. Terrible design is terrible design. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 11:44:00 - [3] - Quote You also realize this is more typical CCP bullshit of buffing shields through nerfing the ScR right? I am glad to see we have come full circle back to the garbage of the past. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 12:48:00 - [4] - Quote axis alpha wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You also realize this is more typical CCP bullshit of buffing shields through nerfing the ScR right? I am glad to see we have come full circle back to the garbage of the past. This community will never be happy. Someone is always gonna cry and get what they want. They will advocate their lives to get what they want. Yeah I complain but not to the extent to some others. Its always gonna go back and forth. But this time around they are making it so the weapons are racial specific and can be utilized best with paired racial suits (assaults). This is only neutering the idea of being able to fit what you want. Forcing players to fit certain suits to run a weapon goes against all that is New Eden. Sure in Eve ships get great bonuses to weapons but those weapons are not 100% useless on every other suit. We have also very much proven in the past that buffing one thing through nerfing another is just a vicious circle that leads to balance never being reached and FOTMs becoming the only option for new players who do not have the skill or SP to fight FOTM with anything besides FOTM. Dumping this idea of buffing through nerfing was the best thing Rattati ever did but that is obviously making its way out the window. CCP does not care as long as it leads to selling more respecs and warbarge components. It is no wonder this game is slowly burning to the ground. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 13:46:00 - [5] - Quote axis alpha wrote: deezy dabest wrote: axis alpha wrote: deezy dabest wrote: You also realize this is more typical CCP bullshit of buffing shields through nerfing the ScR right? I am glad to see we have come full circle back to the garbage of the past. This community will never be happy. Someone is always gonna cry and get what they want. They will advocate their lives to get what they want. Yeah I complain but not to the extent to some others. Its always gonna go back and forth. But this time around they are making it so the weapons are racial specific and can be utilized best with paired racial suits (assaults). This is only neutering the idea of being able to fit what you want. Forcing players to fit certain suits to run a weapon goes against all that is New Eden. Sure in Eve ships get great bonuses to weapons but those weapons are not 100% useless on every other suit. We have also very much proven in the past that buffing one thing through nerfing another is just a vicious circle that leads to balance never being reached and FOTMs becoming the only option for new players who do not have the skill or SP to fight FOTM with anything besides FOTM. Dumping this idea of buffing through nerfing was the best thing Rattati ever did but that is obviously making its way out the window. CCP does not care as long as it leads to selling more respecs and warbarge components. It is no wonder this game is slowly burning to the ground. My thing is I won't use a weapon if I KNOW it's op because it's just gonna get nerfed. So I don't have the grieve like you are right now. I understand what you are saying though. It is a cycle I also thought we had gotten out of. I never had a huge problem with the scr but it got nerfed hard. I'm sure it'll get buffed.........and then nerf the ar. The little bit that I play lately sees very little ScR use just because I suck at tracking jumpers with it. My problem is not with it getting nerfed but with it becoming completely built around players who have fully maxed the weapon and the suit. Making a weapon totally useless without millions of SP invested is bad for everyone that does not have that SP invested meaning that is one less weapon that new players have the chance to experiment with. We are already fairly short on diversity for new players and this only makes it worse. I am also pretty sure that the nerf to the kick multiplier is ONLY because of modded controller use but it is hard to get into why I feel that way. What it boils down to is we have a weapon getting almost completely cut off to new players because of high SP players spamming it and because of modded controller use which should not even exist. There is no one that wins in this scenario except for CCP who will collect a good deal of respec money from the low to mid level SP FOTM chasers. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 13:51:00 - [6] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: Where's a linky? Also, was there a Scrambler Rifle Discussion/Feedback that I missed? No discussion that I saw but I did miss a bunch of the CPM threads because none of them were sticky so they were easily over looked. Here is a link to the feedback thread for the hotfix. Here is a direct link to the spreadsheet ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 19:51:00 - [7] - Quote 4lbert Wesker wrote: deezy dabest wrote: The weapon will now be total trash on anything besides on Amarr assault. Newbies will be totally unable to kill with this weapon so no new ScR users will be popping up anytime soon. I am glad that we could come up with a band aid to make sure the weapon is only viable after spending a few million SP. Typical CCP I suppose. Introduce huge skill bonuses on certain suits and then only balance around those bonuses effectively nulling anyone else. This is why we will never have a new player experience worth speaking of. Buy more boosters if you want to be able to use anything besides an assault rifle. Why do you complain when you don't even show up on PC? There will be plenty of noobs to kill them with nerfed ScR.... Please,don't cry PC is more broken than the ScR after this hotfix drops. Oh and I only launched that PC to collect delicious tears. Obviously it worked as you are now following my threads whining about it. Look forward to even more no shows. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 20:11:00 - [8] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Changes to the ScR are all about the Charge-shot and follow-ups, it generates more heat on the charge shot, and you're slowed slightly while holding it...to limit the utility. As a DMR, this doesn't hurt it very much, and I will still use it as such...it still remains the most versatile service rifle available. Heat build up applies to all shots we both know that. The kick multiplier is getting increased TIMES 4. Contrary to what shield users would have you believe it does not one shot anything besides the most paper of scouts. So lets review. Now total crap on any suit besides the Amarr assault. Crap in CQC because its going to pop in your face instantly. Crap at range cause once you fire a couple of shots its way off target. Is there anything the weapon is suppose to be good for now eve when you have millions invested in both the weapon AND its matching suit? I love how Rattati went from its "slightly" OP to nerfing the dog **** out of it in one big hit. I guess respec sales are down. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 20:12:00 - [9] - Quote 4lbert Wesker wrote: deezy dabest wrote: 4lbert Wesker wrote: deezy dabest wrote: The weapon will now be total trash on anything besides on Amarr assault. Newbies will be totally unable to kill with this weapon so no new ScR users will be popping up anytime soon. I am glad that we could come up with a band aid to make sure the weapon is only viable after spending a few million SP. Typical CCP I suppose. Introduce huge skill bonuses on certain suits and then only balance around those bonuses effectively nulling anyone else. This is why we will never have a new player experience worth speaking of. Buy more boosters if you want to be able to use anything besides an assault rifle. Why do you complain when you don't even show up on PC? There will be plenty of noobs to kill them with nerfed ScR.... Please,don't cry PC is more broken than the ScR after this hotfix drops. Oh and I only launched that PC to collect delicious tears. Obviously it worked as you are now following my threads whining about it. Look forward to even more no shows. I am whining? Look your thread LOL.... FYI i wasn't been on that PC yesterday because I don't have time My no show against you guys is not until tomorrow. Call me whining if you want but cutting off a weapon to anyone not already skilled into it is pretty ****** for new player experience. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 20:28:00 - [10] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Changes to the ScR are all about the Charge-shot and follow-ups, it generates more heat on the charge shot, and you're slowed slightly while holding it...to limit the utility. As a DMR, this doesn't hurt it very much, and I will still use it as such...it still remains the most versatile service rifle available. Heat build up applies to all shots we both know that. The kick multiplier is getting increased TIMES 4. Contrary to what shield users would have you believe it does not one shot anything besides the most paper of scouts. So lets review. Now total crap on any suit besides the Amarr assault. Crap in CQC because its going to pop in your face instantly. Crap at range cause once you fire a couple of shots its way off target. Is there anything the weapon is suppose to be good for now eve when you have millions invested in both the weapon AND its matching suit? I love how Rattati went from its "slightly" OP to nerfing the dog **** out of it in one big hit. I guess respec sales are down. The change isn't to heat buildup, it's to heat factor, which is the factor for a fully charged shot Edit: and while it will not one-shot much with the charge-shot even on a headshot, the follow up shots will still leave the enemy with little enough time to react. ^ Pretty much explains better than I will but as I posted in my edited post above, here's a video of what this means: https://youtu.be/V9kzADW3lrI Take a look at Thaddeus' thread and even the thread me and him did on charges. As the charge goes up so does the heat and there is no indication what so ever, even in the way Rattati describes it as an increase in heat coefficient, to try to claim that it only applies to charge shots. The entire mechanic of the gun would have to be rebuilt as in our testing we even did non public tests proving that there is no state based coefficient on a full charge shot. The ScR operates on a curve directly proportionate to the amount of charge. When it comes to your video one of two things happened there either you got hit by a charge shot and were victim to the terrible UI design of sliding health or you were hit by a turbo controller user. My point is not that the ScR should not be nerfed in some way but that it should not be turned into complete garbage for everyone who does not already have millions invested and even then it has still lost any resemblance of an optimum role. This is a classic example of the CCP from the past. Shield users whine and a total over nerf comes swinging through screwing over anyone that was using it before. If we are going back to the old days of nerfs to buff and wild over nerfs there is no reason to assume any future at all for this game. That path has already proven to be a very bad one. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 21:01:00 - [11] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Thaddeus does a better job with the heat mechanics so I'll let him take over on that one. As far as the whole "Shield users whine and total over nerf".... bear in mind that the SCR was pretty powerful against armor users too. I can only imagine how much hell Shield users have because I only started dabbling with it with any degree of dedication last month or so. The experience was that the Scrambler Rifle was absolute hell to deal with, but not just on shield suits. I have a Gal Mando and even that made me feel general suppression from the Scr and other players echoed that sentiment. But, as others have said, let's reserve comment until we actually see the changes live. I doubt it'll be as bad as you think as previously stated there is a Step Two to this balancing method. The issue with the ScR and armor is thanks to its insane damage profile in combination with damage mod stacking and the warbarge. The damage profile as a drawback is almost completely negated by these. This is just another example of it being balanced specifically around high skilled players and sending new players out to pasture where the ScR is concerned. Lets look at one of my basic fits as an example. Weapon profile + 20% to shields Prof V 15% to shields Warbarge +6% Complex damage mod +7% Total versus shields 48% bonus. Weapon profile -20% Warbarge 6% Complex damage mod 7% Total versus armor -7% How does this even start to make sense? If you make that 2 damage mods the drawback on armor becomes less than 1% versus a roughly 54.5% bonus to shields. Of course there is going to be a problem when you get that large of a bonus against shields while also negating the designed drawback. I said a very long time ago that the damage profile of lasers was going to make them unable to be balanced and here we are. Trying to use heat build up to take the place of a negated drawback does not add up at all. The profile was just some idea copy and pasted over from Eve which just does not belong in this game. If they wanted to fix the ScR the damage profile should have been looked at really hard specially after the warbarge was added but instead we are continuing to play the band aid game. EDIT: That is only counting my meager 6% bonus from the warbarge. Users that have spent money or been smarter with their components are going much deeper into the positive range on both shields and armor. In relation to the drastic difference on the ScR it is absolutely TERRIBLE design and nothing should be changed on the ScR until this is fixed. Lets not forget that all of those numbers are receiving a scaling bonus based on charge with a max of 400% applied on top of that. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.24 21:24:00 - [12] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Pretty sure misquoting a dev is worthy of a forum ban. You would be better off going to rule 30 as the rule you are quoting is actually in relation to impersonating which he did not do. Hestated his opinion on what a conversation sounded like. Quote: 17. Impersonation of another party is prohibited. Forum users are strictly prohibited from impersonating any other party on the DUST 514 forums. This includes but is not limited to ISD volunteers, CCP employees, CCP partners and other forum users. This also includes suggesting that an employee of CCP or an ISD volunteer will perform a task for you. Quote: 30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited. CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, calling out, GÇ£outingGÇ¥ of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++