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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
772
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Posted - 2015.09.23 18:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
I wanted to offer you my suggestions for the coming shield recharge changes for you to consider before you finalize the hotfix, and also offer a few related suggestions for this or the next hotfix. Thanks for your time!
1. First off, I think we should remove shield depleted delay altogether. This will help shield tankers immensely with their timing. In the heat of battle there are of course a lot of things players need to focus on and manage. Delays add one more--a big one!--for shield users. Having two delays makes it really hard to get into a recharge timing rhythm and handicaps shield tankers unnecessarily.
2. If Aeon's proposed changes go through scouts will receive an indirect nerf due to their shield recharge stats remaining static while almost all other suits' recharge will improve, some drastically. Now is not the time to nerf scouts in any way. I play Dust in all modes almost every day and scouts do not hold up when exchanging fire with assaults. They are only effective when cloaking and lurking on the flanks, which is a niche role. They need to maintain a superiority gap in HP recovery. To this effect, I've proposed a shield recharge buff for scouts, shown in the list below.
3. The proposed changes don't help commandos enough. Commandos function as an assault variant and as such need to have their recharge stats brought closer to assaults'. I've proposed stats for them below that slightly buff them over Aeon's stats.
Proposed Shield Recharge Stats:
(Shield HP/sec, delay time)
Caldari:
Scout - 55, 2 sec
Assault - 45, 3 sec
Logistics - 40, 3.5 sec
Commando - 40, 4 sec
Sentinal - 35, 4.5 sec
Minmatar:
Scout - 50, 2.5 sec
Assault - 40, 3.5 sec
Logistics - 35, 4 sec
Commando - 35, 4.5 sec
Sentinal - 30, 5 sec
Gallente:
Scout - 45, 3 sec
Assault - 35, 4 sec
Logistics - 30, 4.5 sec
Commando - 30, 5 sec
Sentinal - 25, 5.5 sec
Amarr:
Scout - 40, 3.5 sec
Assault - 30, 4.5 sec
Logistics - 25, 5 sec
Commando - 25, 5.5 sec
Sentinal - 20, 6 sec
Finally, I propose that players be enabled to fit damage mods in both high and low slots. This will free shield tankers to dedicate all of their high slots to shield modules, as armor tankers are currently able to do with armor modules in low slots.
Thanks again for your time! I hope this gave you something to think about! |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
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Posted - 2015.09.24 03:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Buffing one thing does not constitute a nerf to scouts.
Scouts and sentinels have the strongest shield regen stats in the game cal side. Why should they not be used as the baseline by which shields are measured?
Claiming that buffing other suits is nerfing scouts is disingenuous. And bluntly it's unliky to be taken seriously.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
15
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Posted - 2015.09.24 04:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Claiming that buffing other suits is nerfing scouts is disingenuous.
Same logic apply to buffing AV? |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
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Posted - 2015.09.24 04:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
Claiming that buffing other suits is nerfing scouts is disingenuous.
Same logic apply to buffing AV? Say one day you buffed Swarms and held Dropships constant. Would it be disingenuous of Dropship Pilots to point out that they were dying more often than before the change?
Gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8 of 8
Nerfing something is directly reducing it's stats.
Buffing something else is not a nerf to that thing.
Try and twist the argument all you want. Doesn't change that simple fact.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
15
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Posted - 2015.09.24 04:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
There is no argument to twist. Holding one unit constant and raising the floor around it will detrimentally impact that unit's performance. Any claim to the contrary would be disingenuous. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
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Posted - 2015.09.24 04:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Actually I don't really care what your take on it is, Adipem.
Have fun.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
779
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Posted - 2015.09.24 06:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Buffing one thing does not constitute a nerf to scouts.
Scouts and sentinels have the strongest shield regen stats in the game cal side. Why should they not be used as the baseline by which shields are measured?
Claiming that buffing other suits is nerfing scouts is disingenuous. And bluntly it's unliky to be taken seriously.
Hmmm....claiming that making everything else better diminishes the comparative effectiveness of something seems like sound logic to me. Say you go to McDonalds and everything on the dollar menu is now 70 cents...except for the McNuggets. I think the nuggets are at a disadvantage.
The answer to your question "Why?" is that we are playing a game, not a spreadsheet. Raise the floor under scouts and diminish their superiority gap in regards to HP recovery and you have created a situation where scouts now have less of an advantage. Scouts having less of an advantage than they currently have is bad...because even now they have no advantage over assaults, unless you're talking about niche stuff like lurking cloaked with nova knives around outlying points in PC, or running around the edges of fights in pubs picking off stragglers while their team loses. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 09:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sigh. We are getting stuck on terminology. No need to be accusing people of dishonesty.
Breakin' is right. Nerfing something generally refers to directly modifying it in some way. So buffing assaults, logis and commandos isn't actually a "nerf" to scouts and sentinels.
BUT
If you have a group of balanced things, and you buff some whilst leaving the others the same, the group will obviously become unbalanced. So if scouts, sentinels, assaults and logis are balanced, buffing assaults and logis more than scouts and sentinels will obviously make assaults and logis OP compared to scout and sentinels. So what zzZaXxx and Apidem are saying is essentially correct.
It seems pretty simple to me. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.24 13:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Actually I don't really care what your take on it is, Adipem.
Have fun.
Figured as much. No surprises there.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.24 18:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Actually I don't really care what your take on it is, Adipem. Figured as much. Why would a member of CPM care about player feedback or concerns?
Yeah, let's not even pretend this isn't incredibly dickish baiting.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 18:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Actually I don't really care what your take on it is, Adipem.
Have fun.
in other words breakin stuff concedes defeat
nothi wins
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.24 18:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Actually I don't really care what your take on it is, Adipem. Figured as much. Why would a member of CPM care about player feedback or concerns? Yeah, let's not even pretend this isn't incredibly dickish baiting.
OK for Breakin to call players dishonest and dismiss their feedback.
Not OK to call Breakin out for doing so.
Got it. |
Ama Zarek
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
12
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nah, just add Shield Repair equipment. |
Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Actually I don't really care what your take on it is, Adipem. Figured as much. Why would a member of CPM care about player feedback or concerns? @ zzZaXxx Maybe Breakin knows something that we don't know and isn't at liberty to share. Maybe they're taking another whack at Scouts for a good reason; maybe they're paving the way for a huge Scout EWAR buff down the road! That'd make sense, right? But that still doesn't explain why he'd dismiss your feedback as "unlikely to be taken seriously", much less, accuse you of being dishonest. Any theories?
Hah, theories? It's breakin, you need no theories. If his egotistical personality isn't obvious, you should hear him on comms. Played with him and cross, and you can just HEAR it in his voice. People like that are never a pleasure to talk to, quite literally, the world revolves around him.
Intelligent, yes very. But there are people that literally let it go to their head, so everything anyone else says becomes inferior. Frustratrating to say the least when you can't engage in any basic dialog, though it's best just to ignore people like that. You won't get ANYWHERE with them. Don't worry though, there are people on the CPM that listen. He's just a bad egg in the bunch.
Cross is no doubt similar, but by god if he doesn't engage people even if he himself doesn't agree or see eye to eye. Breakin though will just brush it off as "stupidity" and move along, never once checking himself.
In any case, I always thought scouts and sents were in a good place as far as shield values go. Though I can see how bringing the other suits up around it might be cause for concern. I would just take a wait and see approach. |
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
785
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 17:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Actually I don't really care what your take on it is, Adipem. Figured as much. Why would a member of CPM care about player feedback or concerns? @ zzZaXxx Maybe Breakin knows something that we don't know and isn't at liberty to share. Maybe they're taking another whack at Scouts for a good reason; maybe they're paving the way for a huge Scout EWAR buff down the road! That'd make sense, right? But that still doesn't explain why he'd dismiss your feedback as "unlikely to be taken seriously", much less, accuse you of being dishonest. Any theories?
I do think throwing out words like "disingenuous" and quibbling over terms is trollish and conflict-oriented. Breakin, now that you're on the CPM I hope you'll drop that sh*t. Leave the trolling to the rest of us.
Having said that...first off let me say Hotfix Foxfour is epic, beautiful, and almost perfect. I am blown. away. KUDOS!!! It looks like it'll balance SO many aspects of the game in one fell swoop.
Having said THAT...look...I don't scout. What I SEE is that I rarely get kills by scouts and I don't see many scouts in battle (though not being seen is their MO). When I do encounter one I usually **** them in the face. Occasionally one will get the drop on me and take me out, almost always when I make the mistake of running far off from the crowd.
Scouts have their advantages but they tend only to pay off in niche roles, i.e. speed hacking/protecting skirmish points that don't have many reds on them, or skirting around the edges of the main body of reds and picking off stragglers and loners.
Right now it seems to me, if you're not trying to fill that limited specialist role, either in PC or in a very organized FW squad, there's no reason at all to run scout over assault, just like there's no reason to ever run commando over assault unless you're specializing in AV or want to run MD, PC, LR, or Sniper Rifle and still have a normal rifle.
The changes to shield recharge give scouts less of an advantage in that area, making their hard mode a little harder. I get that normalizing recharge and delays is one step in a process. For the sake of diversity and more dynamic gameplay (and for those that just really want to run scout) I hope that the next step in the process will include bringing the fringe specialists (scouts and commandos) more into the competitive mainstream. |
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 12:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
Breakin was being a jerk. I think though that scouts should be a niche and should never have been in a place where they can go face to face with assaults. Finding the niche for Commandoes seems more difficult as they are just slow assaults, minus the ridiculousness of myofibs, they really have no use.
Because, that's why.
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