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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
769
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Posted - 2015.09.21 13:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:The problem with making a post in these threads is that guys only want solutions based on numbers and theory. No one seems to care about any thing based on practice. It's like the doctor that treats his patients based solely on lab results without talking to the patient or physical examinations.
All that I'm reading is buff shield regen and delay, etc. But none of that will solve the shield tanking problem as long as the counter to shield suits is so "effective". I have shield fits with regens under 2 secs and 40hp+ on the recharge...lol, how much more do I need, seriously? And these suits won't be able to stand against an amarr or gal suit with damaged modded scrambler rifles and more tank at ANY distance.
Right now, we can build shield suits with great regen...buffing the delay and recharge will not solve the problem. I don't care if the delay is down to 0, shield tanking will still not be viable.
Yes, shields will still get destroyed by laser weapons. I've always said that laser damage profile should be changed to +15/-15.
And if you're focusing on your shield tank you sacrifice damage mods. Damage mods should be fittable to low slots as well as high slots. Problem solved.
On the positive side, there's a lot of assault rail fire in Dust, and a fair amount of combat/assault combat fire. The proposed changes would make shields hold up much better against them. And shield users will be a bit more likely to survive, if not win, exchanges with laser weapon users. |
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
769
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 15:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
We need to face the hard truth that the way shields regenerate just doesn't work. If EVE only allowed passive shield tanking the game would have failed a long time ago. Passive regen shields with delays and mods that buff percentages will NEVER balance with armor reps. You can buff shield regen but you'll never be able to normalize regen as a whole. It's comparing apples and hamburgers.
Passive shield regen needs to be massively nerfed and shield rechargers need to become shield boosters. Shield regulators could then buff passive regen and delay. Armor and shields would still be very different from each other in damage resistances, EHP, and mobility.
The main problem is with the delay. It just introduces too many variables. Wether you get lit into or just pinged with a stray shot you have to wait out your delay. Paying attention to the delay and accounting for all the variables is very distracting and takes away from focus on who's shooting at you/who you're shooting at. It gets you killed.
Just normalize HP regen across the board with shield and armor repair modules doing the same thing. It's the only way to achieve balance. As I said, there will still be plenty of differences between the two. |
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
769
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 16:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yo CPM! What are your thoughts on allowing damage mods to be placed in low slots as well? Armor tankers get to have the best of both worlds while shield tankers have to choose, and in their low slots they have no choice: regulator and reactives. |
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
769
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 16:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:zzZaXxx wrote:Yo CPM! What are your thoughts on allowing damage mods to be placed in low slots as well? Armor tankers get to have the best of both worlds while shield tankers have to choose, and in their low slots they have no choice: regulator and reactives. This is a shield regen thread. Make another thread for that please. Don't knock this one off-topic
Oh ok...but it is relevant to being able to use the mods you need to fully focus on shields without sacrficing damage. |
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
769
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 17:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Has Rattati given y'all any feedback on the proposed changes? They seem drastic but drastic change is needed. Better to just implement them and then if shields are OP rein them in. |
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
769
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 17:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
You bickering trolls have derailed this discussion with your petty personal grievances. Cease and desist. |
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
769
|
Posted - 2015.09.21 17:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keeping scouts' regen the same while raising the floor with other suits is an indirect nerf to scouts, which are already a bit UP right now. Shields are underperforming across the board, so Cal scout and other scouts' regen/delays should be buffed along with the rest. |
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
771
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Posted - 2015.09.21 21:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/eshWaQK.jpg
Overall I support the above proposed changes. Some suits, such as Min and Gal Assault, seem to benefit too much from these changes, but to really get the payoff they'll have to invest in shield regen mods and make sacrifices elsewhere. And recharge delays are really such an incredible handicap that it's best to err on the side of liberality in buffing shield regen. Anything egregious will be adjusted swiftly, i.e. when the Rail Rifle was nerfed into the underworld.
Having said that, scouts will be nerfed into oblivion by these changes. They're already extremely squishy compared to assaults. If they end up having the same delay and only 5 more regen than assaults there REALLY will be no reason to run scout.
I suggest that the proposed changes be altered to create some distance between scouts and assaults:
- Reduce all scouts' proposed delays by 1 second.
- Increase all scouts' proposed recharge by 5.
So on one end you'd have Caldari Scout with recharge of 55 and delay of 2 seconds. On the other end Amarr Scout with 40 and 3.5.
If everything else is getting a buff to shields then scouts need one too because right now scouts are somewhat UP and without some love it's going to get worse.
Commandos also merit a little more love. It's a mistake to always give them stats that fall just above sentinels in these progressions. The only thing that commandos have in common with sentinels is a larger hitbox, which is an extreme handicap. Otherwise they are slower assaults (major handicap) with less regen that can run two light weapons and no grenades. No grenades is also a handicap in this grenade crazy game. They don't even have more EHP than assaults due to their slot layouts. Their shield regen needs to be brought closer to assaults. My suggestion to accomplish this is simple:
- Give commandos the same regen and delays as logistics
Just following a strict pattern without acknowledging the reality of how scouts and commandos are performing is going to leave them even more in the lurch. We need more scouts and definitely more commandos in the field, but if the above proposed changes go through without tweaks in their favor you'll find that players will be running them even less than they do now. Heed my words CPM!! |
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