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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 01:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:WyrmHero1945 wrote:Use a scout suit. Caldari and Gallente offer the lowest scan profiles. With the skill at level 5 and 2 dampeners you can probably get past the GalLogi focused scanner. I don't know really. Why? Because I don't care about being scanned.
Don't you guys remember how beta radar worked? Radars were SHARED. If you had a scout in your team, and he detected everything, you'll see red dots all over in your radar at all times. There were always red dots in the radar, scouts if seen/targeted would appear on radar as well, and everybody would see them.
Now it's rare if there's a GalLogi on the other team, and if it is, you gotta think that he spent valuable SP for the ewar role. Did you spend anything on not getting seen? If scanners are nerfed in some way, how the **** I'm supposed to hunt you on my scout suit? Trade HP for range and precision modules? **** you!
Stop the nerf scanners trend ffs!
A Level 5 Gallente Scout will need 3 Profile Dampener Modules in order to avoid the scans my GalLogi can provide using the Duvolle Focused Active Scanner. My Level 5 GalLogi with a Duvolle Focused Active Scanner has a scan precision of 15 dB. My Level 5 GalScout with two Complex Profile Dampeners has a scan profile of 16 dB. In order to fully equip your suit to combat permascanning you would essentially have to gimp your suit to the point where you will not stand much of a chance in battle.
You aren't supposed to be engaged in battle with that fit. You're supposed to assassinate that logi.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 01:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:To suggest that there is nothing wrong with the Active Scanner system is to try and sweep the dirt under the rug.
1) The amount of sacrifice needed to dampen is significantly greater than the sacrifice needed to scan.
2) When EWAR changes went through, the Active Scanner remained untouched, creating further imbalance.
3) You can use multiple Active Scanners to negate the cooldown period and produce "always on" active scans.
4) With increase squad sizes in FW and PC, the number of Gal Logi w/ Duvolle Active Scan users per Teammate Receiving the Info has decreased significantly. In PC, just one is all that is needed to share with a whole team. If that is what they had intended that particular scanner to do, they would never have made it Squad Share vs. Team Share like the others.
By your logic, if two teams in PC each have one Gal Logi with a bunch of Duvolle scanners, then each team should have to field scouts to counter it. That is a very flawed argument.
There have been several sensible suggestions to changing the Active Scanner so that it can still be useful without providing such a significant benefit for so very little sacrifice.
If two teams field tanks they'd need to field AV as well...see where this is going? If you want to counter something, yes, you must field the counters.
Any frame, btw, can visually spot a GalLogi and call him out to the team. TW is OP.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 01:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Death Shadow117 wrote:The problem isn't scanning its being perms scanned the entire game. If equipment had charges (ammo) itd be better but being able to scan people unlimitedly at 15 db is kinda dumb (it takes 3 cplx damps and lvl 5 galscout to be able to get under that) and just running a scout suit doesn't fix the problem it actually hinders you more when they do find you cause if you fit damps you gimp your suit ( I really don't care I run all bottles on my minscout)
Seriously, if you're being scanned repeatedly then either accept that you'll be detected and plan your spawning accordingly OR pull back from the area and find a different solution to whatever your objective is.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 03:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:One Eyed King wrote:To suggest that there is nothing wrong with the Active Scanner system is to try and sweep the dirt under the rug.
1) The amount of sacrifice needed to dampen is significantly greater than the sacrifice needed to scan.
2) When EWAR changes went through, the Active Scanner remained untouched, creating further imbalance.
3) You can use multiple Active Scanners to negate the cooldown period and produce "always on" active scans.
4) With increase squad sizes in FW and PC, the number of Gal Logi w/ Duvolle Active Scan users per Teammate Receiving the Info has decreased significantly. In PC, just one is all that is needed to share with a whole team. If that is what they had intended that particular scanner to do, they would never have made it Squad Share vs. Team Share like the others.
By your logic, if two teams in PC each have one Gal Logi with a bunch of Duvolle scanners, then each team should have to field scouts to counter it. That is a very flawed argument.
There have been several sensible suggestions to changing the Active Scanner so that it can still be useful without providing such a significant benefit for so very little sacrifice. If two teams field tanks they'd need to field AV as well...see where this is going? If you want to counter something, yes, you must field the counters. Any frame, btw, can visually spot a GalLogi and call him out to the team. TW is OP. The problem becomes when the risk/rewards become imbalanced. With Active Scanners, the risks are little, the benefits great, and the necessary counters are extreme with little reward and significantly greater risk and cost. Scouts had counters when they were spammed, it was other scouts. That was a crap meta. Forcing everyone into one play style because of a single piece of EQ is likewise a crap meta. There are plenty of ways to make Active Scans balanced and useful, so maybe instead of dragging your feet about changes, you could promote and suggest some that may alleviate some of the reasonable abuses and balance issues regarding the Active Scanners.
Well, I'm pretty sure you know I'm no stranger to the scan debate. Also pretty sure you're not either and that being the case you recognize that while I have defended the scans as they've been for a while now I have also made no shortage of suggestions for handling the "issue". Things like- Adding Content in the form of additional EWAR implements for disruption of scans, both as nade for the individual and carried eq for a group, lent support to Kirk's idea to add/integrate falloff and yes, elevated the Scout role to a recon/assassin by suggesting its use as such (as intended). I'm well aware of the potency of scans, ezpecially when the user is allowed to persist unchecked as well as the limitations of the frame involved (GalLogi) in question when outfitted for a counter-recon role and IME there are many. Just like any other singularly purpose-built full proto frame.
And unlike the actually permascanning constantly in a 360-¦ arc entire class of Scout frames of 1.8, the frame and equipment combo in question is One frame, easily detectable by its peers OR ANY Scout outfitted to detect it and must stop, hold its position and stand there while he uses the equipment in ONE direction lighting unprepared targets for mere seconds versus undetectable units outside their class running all across the map at some of the fastest speeds available, with the highest jump heights available (so using many portions of terrain physically unavailable to any one else), often invisible and at any point in time able to engage targets with NO interruption to the actual permascans being created.
One of these things is NOT like the other. And the constant insistent drumming of comparison is disingenuous to the point of intentionally fradulent.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 03:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've also suggested several times that base profiles between classes be moved closer together to allow for more passive module interplay.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 04:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: Quick fact check (just in case):
Last year's Scout shared its passive scans squadwide with up to a maximum of five other players. Recon Scout passives were ruled to be OP, heavily nerfed, and their former function is today being filled by the GalLogi.
This year's Active Scans are shared teamwide. The only exception is the Duvolle Focused Scanner which shares results only with squad (though squad sizes today can now reach higher counts than before).
May have misread the OP, but thought I should clear up the above points. Passive Scans have been shared with Squad since Uprising.
My two cents:
Today's Recon GalLogis are easy mode compared to yesterday's paperthin (~250HP) Recon Scouts. They get a lot more done with a lot less effort and risk exposure. I personally think that Permascan is imbalanced at any risk level and would very much like to see it fixed.
This be cray.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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