DUST Search - Time to ask for TRADING IMPROVEMENT!

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

Few months ago we were blessed finally with the ability to do trade.

Or rather, gift items. Gifting really isn't trading as such and is a very clumsy way of trading with some weaknesses out of which the least isn't the scamming.

Now, New Eden is a harsh place with backstabbing scamming and skullduggery. Great!
That's why CCP introduced the item gifting as trading with the words warning that part of the Eve/Dust experience is the need for trust and scamming (source)

BUT
Inability to directly swap goods for goods brings NO GAMEPLAY VALUE TO THE GAME.
Just delay, waste of time, ending often in case where both sides refuse to send first.

If someone says that scamming is a game of it's own right, they are partially true.
But commonly accepted trade/scamming mechanic is, for example in boardgames, as follows:

Quote:

When Is a Deal Binding?
When two players agree to a deal, it is binding if they
make the exchange immediately. A deal is not binding if it
involves an exchange of one thing now for something in the
future. Example: If you say GÇ£IGÇÖll give you 10 MB for the Boy
Sprouts, right now,GÇ¥ and the other player gives you the Boy
Sprouts, you have to pay. But if you say GÇ£If you give me the
Boy Sprouts next turn, IGÇÖll pay you 10 MB next turn,GÇ¥ and
he gives you the Group, you donGÇÖt have to pay next turn,
unless you want to!

source: Illuminati Rules, basic rules, section 8

That really REALLY is a good concept.

You ask why should we use that kind of rule from another not so hardcore game in our wonderful scamming universe?
Because Eve/Dust scamming is nothing compared to, for example, illuminati scamming. (Read: 9: advanced rules, Cheating.)

Would instant trading ('station trading') kill scamming?
No. In eve there IS the station trading, and it is still know for scamming. All other forms are still available: Market skullduggery, fleet backstabs, ganks not to mention billions of contract scams.

AND it is STILL possible to scam in station trading (entering x1000 less isk, presenting bp copy instead of bpo etc).
But it would happen within the user friendly UI mechanic.

Why is this issue relevent and urgent?
Because CCP Rattati asked for easy things doable in a simple hotfix.
Please go give a like on this request in that very thread here.
if you think that user interface shouldn't waste our time.
EDIT: no more, feedback gathering has ended.

PS: that way we would see what we would get, no need to check the inventory before and after the trade, just to see if we got anything.

From what time Illuminati have pyramid?
They have owl, pyramid and god eye is symbol of Deism and Illuminatis are for science, not Deism and religions.
For these two we already have Free Masons ;)

KEYWORD: BETTERTRADE

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KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.09.09 14:01:00 - [1] - Quote Few months ago we were blessed finally with the ability to do trade. Or rather, gift items. Gifting really isn't trading as such and is a very clumsy way of trading with some weaknesses out of which the least isn't the scamming. Now, New Eden is a harsh place with backstabbing scamming and skullduggery. Great! That's why CCP introduced the item gifting as trading with the words warning that part of the Eve/Dust experience is the need for trust and scamming (source) BUT Inability to directly swap goods for goods brings NO GAMEPLAY VALUE TO THE GAME. Just delay, waste of time, ending often in case where both sides refuse to send first. If someone says that scamming is a game of it's own right, they are partially true. But commonly accepted trade/scamming mechanic is, for example in boardgames, as follows: Quote: When Is a Deal Binding? When two players agree to a deal, it is binding if they make the exchange immediately. A deal is not binding if it involves an exchange of one thing now for something in the future. Example: If you say GÇ£IGÇÖll give you 10 MB for the Boy Sprouts, right now,GÇ¥ and the other player gives you the Boy Sprouts, you have to pay. But if you say GÇ£If you give me the Boy Sprouts next turn, IGÇÖll pay you 10 MB next turn,GÇ¥ and he gives you the Group, you donGÇÖt have to pay next turn, unless you want to! source: Illuminati Rules, basic rules, section 8 That really REALLY is a good concept. You ask why should we use that kind of rule from another not so hardcore game in our wonderful scamming universe? Because Eve/Dust scamming is nothing compared to, for example, illuminati scamming. (Read: 9: advanced rules, Cheating.) Would instant trading ('station trading') kill scamming? No. In eve there IS the station trading, and it is still know for scamming. All other forms are still available: Market skullduggery, fleet backstabs, ganks not to mention billions of contract scams. AND it is STILL possible to scam in station trading (entering x1000 less isk, presenting bp copy instead of bpo etc). But it would happen within the user friendly UI mechanic. Why is this issue relevent and urgent? Because CCP Rattati asked for easy things doable in a simple hotfix. Please go give a like on this request in that very thread here. if you think that user interface shouldn't waste our time. PS: that way we would see what we would get, no need to check the inventory before and after the trade, just to see if we got anything. Thanks for all the supporters. 07 KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.09 20:27:00 - [2] - Quote I think instead of a direct trade window we should start with contracts that allow you to set an isk price. This would allow us to get money when selling things and allow us to use them as collateral when trading items. Later a listing for public contracts would serve as a pseudo market. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
Ablerober Haircuts that kill 351	Posted - 2015.09.09 20:46:00 - [3] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: I think instead of a direct trade window we should start with contracts that allow you to set an isk price. This would allow us to get money when selling things and allow us to use them as collateral when trading items. Later a listing for public contracts would serve as a pseudo market. You mean like a bulletin board where you can see who is selling what at the best price? No items change hands until the exact ISK requirement is met. I like the model in FFXIV for example.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.09.09 20:50:00 - [4] - Quote Ablerober wrote: deezy dabest wrote: I think instead of a direct trade window we should start with contracts that allow you to set an isk price. This would allow us to get money when selling things and allow us to use them as collateral when trading items. Later a listing for public contracts would serve as a pseudo market. You mean like a bulletin board where you can see who is selling what at the best price? No items change hands until the exact ISK requirement is met. I like the model in FFXIV for example. Think of it as a place where public contracts can be searched. It is really all just a simple version of the Eve Online contracts system. ++ Remove NPC orbitals from FW -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest ++
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 155	Posted - 2015.09.09 21:06:00 - [5] - Quote Fix the actual in game glitches/lag and FOTM issues like myos, then trading. I wish trading was better , but in truth it is the most insignificant part of the game experience for 99% of players. The game play/balance issues need priority. So here is to hoping they fix the game so that trading can be worried about down the road, but now is not really the time to focus on a small group's pet part of the game. There is only so much developer time to go around and I would rather be able to finish matches than funnel more stuff to the few officer hoarders out there.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.09.09 23:27:00 - [6] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Fix the actual in game glitches/lag and FOTM issues like myos, then trading. I wish trading was better , but in truth it is the most insignificant part of the game experience for 99% of players. The game play/balance issues need priority. So here is to hoping they fix the game so that trading can be worried about down the road, but now is not really the time to focus on a small group's pet part of the game. There is only so much developer time to go around and I would rather be able to finish matches than funnel more stuff to the few officer hoarders out there. Thanks for input. We too want all the bugs to be fixed and the lag to go away. But it is something CCP can't do in a hotfix, with small assets. If it could, I'd rip my hat because you and I have been asking for fixing bugs A, B, C, D and so on for three years now. Item trading window should be a smallish thing to code, with the UI design model already exising eve side. PS: If everyone can trade well, it increases the interest in it. The more trade, the more player interaction. More player interaction tends to make the game more immersive if not even addictive. Thanks for all the supporters. 07 KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.09.09 23:29:00 - [7] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: I think instead of a direct trade window we should start with contracts that allow you to set an isk price. This would allow us to get money when selling things and allow us to use them as collateral when trading items. Later a listing for public contracts would serve as a pseudo market. Yes, that would be nice too. But I suspect having a contract system would be a bigger thing to implement than simple player to player trade window. Why I suspect that? In Eve, CCP has a dedicated server/node just to handle all the contracts. Direct trade would be one instance with little need to archive everything. Thanks for all the supporters. 07 KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.03 23:26:00 - [8] - Quote It appears Mr Arkena Wyrmspire is asking for the same: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=217832&find=unread Some different arguments there. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 01:49:00 - [9] - Quote Could we PLEASE have the better trade system. I grow tired of this continous "you send first please" "no you send" "no you send" "no isk first" "no item first" It really sucks and wasters our time. "Today I have been feeling mostly smug." KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1	Posted - 2015.10.11 02:26:00 - [10] - Quote Has anyone received a trading notification? I have experienced this only once before didn't take a picture though... Basically said "You have received Experimental Assault Scrambler Rifle x3" I don't recall if it also had the player name but that's how it appeared in the notification channel. AmarrFTW "The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... " Not For Sale- Sanders 2016

Ateroith KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 222	Posted - 2015.10.11 03:51:00 - [11] - Quote pls pls pls CCP we NEED FULL BPO & SKIN TRADING "...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:41:00 - [12] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: Has anyone received a trading notification? I have experienced this only once before didn't take a picture though... Basically said "You have received Experimental Assault Scrambler Rifle x3" I don't recall if it also had the player name but that's how it appeared in the notification channel. Oh, that too. We are SUPPOSED to have that, but it arrives once every 5% times. Roughly. So we are required to check our inventory before AND after to see if we got the goods. Waste of time and effort. Again brings no gameplay value. "Today I have been feeling mostly smug." KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.11 16:41:00 - [13] - Quote Ateroith wrote: pls pls pls CCP we NEED FULL BPO & SKIN TRADING Sorry bro, while that would be nice, that is not the point in this thread. "Today I have been feeling mostly smug." KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.

GM Archduke Game Masters C C P Alliance 2	Posted - 2015.10.16 17:39:00 - [14] - Quote Moved this to Features and Ideas Discussion. GM Archduke CCP Customer Support \| EVE Online \| DUST 514

CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2015.10.16 20:26:00 - [15] - Quote I think I've already posted my unorthodox points of view enough times to certify myself as "New Eden odd" as the Devs. LOL, I actually like the constantly bold stance this game has against other "similar" titles we find in PS gaming. I actually LOVE the bold response that the devs give to issues like aim-assist, tactical-shoot outs, "team" interaction, anti-farming, etc. To get the grasp on Dust, I had to read up on Eve-Online (no I don't have any interest in playing that game). It's not just a game---it's a detached imaginary universe of cruelty and double-cross. I got educated about the (JAW-DROPPING) deception and heist element in Eve, and I knew that, as any sort of player-trading opens up in our game, that same lying/cheating/dumb-sucker/snatch element was always intended to get into this game as well, and that it was going to be almost entirely checked-n-balanced by us PLAYERS, not policed by DED (you may not know who DeD is...). I haven't tried trading yet (I figure I have no reason to rush into that arm of the game just yet), but I am armed with my own player-customized scheme, for suppressing the scamming attempts when I get around to joining the trading arena. THAT's what the devs want you to do. They want you to come up with YOUR means of protection against the New Eden player-danger. (Nope, you don't get to hear what MY safety-gimmicks are, hehe) It IS what the game environment was always intended to be about (it's just unfortunate that so many months of just face-shooting before the appearance of any trading, led many players to think this game was just about innocent honest face-shooting...) Some players are going to have to decide if they feel comfortable in a game about infiltrating and snatching their hard-earned stuff,... and I think that's fair that they need to reconsider if "the full version" of Dust is a game for them. But I don't think the Devs should be policing the trading system too much. Only police abuse of someone's account or character names, because the rules clearly warn that nonsense IS illegal (federal, earthpeople illegal). It came way late for many of us, and this is painful , but you are finally being welcomed to what Eve-Dust 514 is, in its mature form. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Demandred Moores Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 194	Posted - 2015.10.17 07:45:00 - [16] - Quote Would rather see frame rates, ewar, racial vehicles, ect fixed. You're satisfied with asking for this? Don't give them more excuses to put it off. Come on trading as is is fine compared to missing half the game. riseofancientFA.gs
Dont-be-a-D1CK Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 264	Posted - 2015.10.17 12:49:00 - [17] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Would rather see frame rates, ewar, racial vehicles, ect fixed. You're satisfied with asking for this? Don't give them more excuses to put it off. Come on trading as is is fine compared to missing half the game. Yes.. well they skipped all that just to add trading in the first place.. I think it's safe to say.. they dont care (Dust team might) but CCP... lolNO Sorry for a rambling derail Kero.. but like CCP.. I just don't care anymore... Better trade systems are just 1 out of a 100 things overdue but in reality ... no one cares The fact that they tell us.. hey we have a small crew.. sweet f all chance of actually improving anything in gameplay.. But check dat SKIN yo... (No disrespect to the Dust crew, the higher up's in CCP though.. I love them) Well that was a surprise.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.17 15:09:00 - [18] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: Would rather see frame rates, ewar, racial vehicles, ect fixed. You're satisfied with asking for this? Don't give them more excuses to put it off. Come on trading as is is fine compared to missing half the game. Do realise the scale of the things you are asking? You could as well ask for moon from the sky. Compared to this entirely doable thing. Before going to use the argument "don't bother fixing this because instead fix The Lag / New Toys /The Entire Game" have a thought about the scale of things. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Seach "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
Demandred Moores Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 199	Posted - 2015.10.17 16:42:00 - [19] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: Would rather see frame rates, ewar, racial vehicles, ect fixed. You're satisfied with asking for this? Don't give them more excuses to put it off. Come on trading as is is fine compared to missing half the game. Do realise the scale of the things you are asking? You could as well ask for moon from the sky. Compared to this entirely doable thing. Before going to use the argument "don't bother fixing this because instead fix The Lag / New Toys /The Entire Game" have a thought about the scale of things. And on what scale does trading take priority? I also don't see what needs fixed with trading. It seems perfectly fine as is. Consider you're asking for something that some wouldn't see as a priority or necessity at all. riseofancientFA.gs
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.17 18:10:00 - [20] - Quote Demandred Moores wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Demandred Moores wrote: Would rather see frame rates, ewar, racial vehicles, ect fixed. You're satisfied with asking for this? Don't give them more excuses to put it off. Come on trading as is is fine compared to missing half the game. Do realise the scale of the things you are asking? You could as well ask for moon from the sky. Compared to this entirely doable thing. Before going to use the argument "don't bother fixing this because instead fix The Lag / New Toys /The Entire Game" have a thought about the scale of things. And on what scale does trading take priority? I also don't see what needs fixed with trading. It seems perfectly fine as is. Consider you're asking for something that some wouldn't see as a priority or necessity at all. Fact: We don't have trading. We have asset gifting. Even though trading has been advertised to be in the game. So that is essentially a 'fix' for something that has already been decided to be in. Getting a simple trade window in NOT high priority, no. BUT If you compare the complexity=the amount of work needed for it, THEN it is pretty high on the comparison. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Seach "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.

LOL KILLZ LulKlz 414	Posted - 2015.10.17 19:26:00 - [21] - Quote The PEOPLE WANT QUAFE!!!! \0/
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood 434	Posted - 2015.10.17 19:32:00 - [22] - Quote Why not an open market? Search the item and buy it... Or place the item on the market for x amount of isk...? Do that? Which is exactly what I see! Trading station +1 Forever ADS. Best role.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.20 02:52:00 - [23] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Why not an open market? Because that is too much to ask. Better ask for something that just might be doable. (and hell YEES +1000 for real market. If only.) KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 897	Posted - 2015.10.21 01:50:00 - [24] - Quote Since we already can't trade mid battle, a simple two slot window. Send a notice instead of opening a window right away to reduce trolling lol. Both have to confirm, either can cancel. Needs an isk slider too. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.21 01:59:00 - [25] - Quote Devadander wrote: Since we already can't trade mid battle, a simple two slot window. Send a notice instead of opening a window right away to reduce trolling lol. Both have to confirm, either can cancel. Needs an isk slider too. And BOOM, there it is. The concept for UI. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 904	Posted - 2015.10.21 11:24:00 - [26] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Devadander wrote: Since we already can't trade mid battle, a simple two slot window. Send a notice instead of opening a window right away to reduce trolling lol. Both have to confirm, either can cancel. Needs an isk slider too. And BOOM, there it is. The concept for UI. Just rattled off how ffXI did its trade window. No imagination needed xD Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Shaun Iwairo DUST University Ivy League 228	Posted - 2015.10.21 11:37:00 - [27] - Quote Devadander wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Devadander wrote: Since we already can't trade mid battle, a simple two slot window. Send a notice instead of opening a window right away to reduce trolling lol. Both have to confirm, either can cancel. Needs an isk slider too. And BOOM, there it is. The concept for UI. Just rattled off how ffXI did its trade window. No imagination needed xD Not sure how common it would be in Dust but there's a couple of pretty easy scams in Eve that involves the trade window. The first involves simply removing or modifying items/ISK just before the mark clicks on confirm. This can usually be done by asking them to re-click confirm a few times for legitimate 'reasons', then when you've got them clicking on command you make the switch. The second involves putting items in the window that look like what the mark is expecting, but are in fact much cheaper items. This works well for items that have the same icon or a similar name. I guess that what I'm saying is that even with a confirm button, people are still going to get scammed and complain about it. Something is killing new player retention.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2015.10.21 21:10:00 - [28] - Quote Shaun Iwairo wrote: Not sure how common it would be in Dust but there's a couple of pretty easy scams in Eve that involves the trade window. The first involves simply removing or modifying items/ISK just before the mark clicks on confirm. This can usually be done by asking them to re-click confirm a few times for legitimate 'reasons', then when you've got them clicking on command you make the switch. The second involves putting items in the window that look like what the mark is expecting, but are in fact much cheaper items. This works well for items that have the same icon or a similar name. I guess that what I'm saying is that even with a confirm button, people are still going to get scammed and complain about it. Remember, we weren't asking for absolute scam immunity here. So no problem. Just like in Eve. KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading. Search "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
postapo wastelander Corrosive Synergy 2	Posted - 2015.11.28 14:19:00 - [29] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Few months ago we were blessed finally with the ability to do trade. Or rather, gift items. Gifting really isn't trading as such and is a very clumsy way of trading with some weaknesses out of which the least isn't the scamming. Now, New Eden is a harsh place with backstabbing scamming and skullduggery. Great! That's why CCP introduced the item gifting as trading with the words warning that part of the Eve/Dust experience is the need for trust and scamming (source) BUT Inability to directly swap goods for goods brings NO GAMEPLAY VALUE TO THE GAME. Just delay, waste of time, ending often in case where both sides refuse to send first. If someone says that scamming is a game of it's own right, they are partially true. But commonly accepted trade/scamming mechanic is, for example in boardgames, as follows: Quote: When Is a Deal Binding? When two players agree to a deal, it is binding if they make the exchange immediately. A deal is not binding if it involves an exchange of one thing now for something in the future. Example: If you say GÇ£IGÇÖll give you 10 MB for the Boy Sprouts, right now,GÇ¥ and the other player gives you the Boy Sprouts, you have to pay. But if you say GÇ£If you give me the Boy Sprouts next turn, IGÇÖll pay you 10 MB next turn,GÇ¥ and he gives you the Group, you donGÇÖt have to pay next turn, unless you want to! source: Illuminati Rules, basic rules, section 8 That really REALLY is a good concept. You ask why should we use that kind of rule from another not so hardcore game in our wonderful scamming universe? Because Eve/Dust scamming is nothing compared to, for example, illuminati scamming. (Read: 9: advanced rules, Cheating.) Would instant trading ('station trading') kill scamming? No. In eve there IS the station trading, and it is still know for scamming. All other forms are still available: Market skullduggery, fleet backstabs, ganks not to mention billions of contract scams. AND it is STILL possible to scam in station trading (entering x1000 less isk, presenting bp copy instead of bpo etc). But it would happen within the user friendly UI mechanic. Why is this issue relevent and urgent? Because CCP Rattati asked for easy things doable in a simple hotfix. Please go give a like on this request in that very thread here. if you think that user interface shouldn't waste our time. EDIT: no more, feedback gathering has ended. PS: that way we would see what we would get, no need to check the inventory before and after the trade, just to see if we got anything. From what time Illuminati have pyramid? They have owl, pyramid and god eye is symbol of Deism and Illuminatis are for science, not Deism and religions. For these two we already have Free Masons ;) KEYWORD: BETTERTRADE *"Who is postapo?!"*
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 7	Posted - 2015.12.08 17:59:00 - [30] - Quote Scamming is part of the game... BUT... If the mechanics of the game are so imbalanced that a 4 year old could scam an experienced player, then that is about as balanced as a large clip, automatic, long range, shotgun. Scamming is clearly OP right now and requires no skill. Balance it already! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.



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"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "

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