DUST Search - dont ruin my FG's and RR's rat man

Aeon Amadi wrote:

There are other factors, as well, that I feel need to be mentioned.

Power leveling in the Sniper Rifles is just silly. The damage difference from a Standard to a Prototype is 20 damage. From Prototype to Officer? 123. This coupled with the additional range and zoom capability of the Thale's means that the only one worth using at all is the Thale's.

You also have to be crouching/holding completely still in order to get proper functionality out of a Sniper Rifle. As Breakin mentions above, hit detection and framerate play big roles but so too does the fact that unless you subject yourself to vulnerability you'll be fighting the sway as well.

Map design is a huge factor, as many maps prior to Uprising 1.5 were bowl shaped, meaning most of your sniper perches are going to be set about the redline. After that, CCP took to making maps as flat as possible with little to no actual terrain gameplay to limit sniper play on or near objectives and also started occluding most objectives inside buildings or behind lots of terrain (this practically started the Scout/Sentinel uproar of 1.8, when they had their respective buffs and gameplay changes) because both of those specialities rule CQC. With no objective play from medium to long range, those playstyles can - and still do - usually go uncontested.

So, the TL;DR as to why the Forge Gun is a preferable Sniper Rifle:

- Guaranteed kill
- Easier/more reliable Hit Detection
- Multi-role capability (AV)
- Damage scaling
- Mobility
- Map Design

Everyone hates snipers but out of all the FPS games I've played, Dust 514 has been the only one that I know of that seemingly designed it's entire gameplay scope to exclude them... then tried to balance them in that atmosphere.


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Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.09.08 19:33:00 - [1] - Quote I am not sure if many of you are aware of this but the FG's all used to have splash damage, this was latter removed due to an outcry of the community and in my opinion it was done unrightfully now rat man has some ideas to add dispersion to them perhaps to make them more balanced when used against infantry, this is fair enough even tho I dont like it as it still takes a fair amount of skill to do this to begin with secondly the FG already has mechanisms in place that prevent players from using them as primary anti infantry weapons now the AFG is a good example of what steps can be taken to further balance the FG's as when a FG is charging the reticle is constantly moving so that you cannot simply line up a shot so easily and it doesn't hold the charge meaning you have to know the point of origin and keep that in mind when using it something that isnt a problem on the FG and BFG because they stabilize and hold the charge allowing for the shot to be lined up without having to think much about it now I would argue to bring back the splash for all the variants and make it so that they do not stabilize even when fully charged or keep it as it is and add the dispersion but with the splash damge now I have many opinions of my own none that really matter much to me as I will adapt to whatever crazy new change is added now the RR is a magnificent work of art and in its time it has seen its fair use even at one point being so powerful it was nerfed into the ground a major part of that nerf was the kick, now some people may not be aware of this but the RR has one of the highest reload times this alone is enough reason to use other weapons, but it also has another downfall which is the charge up mechanism your enemy can kill you before you even get the chance to react and it makes it a bit of a pain to burst the weapon at range which is the only real way to mange the kick, now the kick itself can be justified but along with so many other cons and only range to make up for it makes it more favorable for me to use and ScR on a cal assault then an RR and not to mention that the ScR has way more potential then the RR does even at range due to shorter cool downs larger clips and the ability to charge up to do massive damge even the AScR is capable of being a better ranged weapon and unless the kick is reduced so much that it is virtually gone there will be no reason for me to choose the RR as my primary on my cal assault personally I would like to see bigger clip sizes less damge and higher fire rates or higher damage and lower fire rates with decreased charge up as the bonus rather then kick or reload and leave it as a ranged suppression weapon justifying high reload times by giving it a fairly large clip size now what i am trying to do here is express my opinion on two matters that would personally affect me a lot especially because I am a Caldari specialist all the weapons I have at proto are mainly cal tech and I am skilled into all the Cal drop suits to at least level 3 I know that many players wish to make the Caldari into something that they are clearly not designed for so what I am asking is to give a reduction of .05 or perhaps .075 per level to the charge up of the RR as the bonus to a cal assault to make it easier to burst at range and so that other suits wont outperform the cal assault using the same weapon only sacrificing reload speeds which can be negated by simply using a commando I don't want to see any of the cal tech be unreasonably alternated due to complaints from someone that doesn't even understand how the game works, so coming from me I say that a reduction to kick is welcome but not with the absence of better reloads unless you plan on making it almost non existent or at least manageable by making it vertical or giving it a specific pattern to follow that isn't so chaotic click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.09.09 16:10:00 - [2] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: abdullah muzaffar wrote: Dispersion is already present. Noticeable when strafing. Indeed, and you must crouch for a more precise shot. Very few people still use the forge strictly for anti-infantry purposes.. Compared to what it used to be like at least.. I don't see how a dispersion increase would be warranted Because inside of 300m, a FG is a better option than a Sniper and people don't like that? have you ever even used a FG? click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 11:08:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: abdullah muzaffar wrote: Dispersion is already present. Noticeable when strafing. Indeed, and you must crouch for a more precise shot. Very few people still use the forge strictly for anti-infantry purposes.. Compared to what it used to be like at least.. I don't see how a dispersion increase would be warranted Because inside of 300m, a FG is a better option than a Sniper and people don't like that? Slightly odd wording since the projectile despawns at 300m. Framerate and it detection seem to be the biggest reason sniper rifles suck. That and the ability to chamge direction with no movement pause means lining a shot on a nerd wiggling in place is more luck than skill. The framerate leads to some insane over-correction issues whenever I counter-snipe. The forge gun has pretty much the same issues as a sniper weapon. Only difference is if it happens to hit you, you're dead. call me crazy but I have both at proto and if I want to snipe I use a sniper rifle and if I want to kill infantry while denying vehicles I use an Assault FG, if all I am doing is destroying installations and vehicles I stick with the breach and come on you cant say that the FG is a good sniper it has no zoom at all so unless you play on a 50" screen with a magnifying glass taped or glued to the center of your screen its gonna be hard to even find your target as they are usually only a few pixels big and mind you the FG is not an efficient sniper it has less overall ammo you cant resupply using hives so you have to constantly resupply and the glowing blue aura around you when charging or holding a charge gives your position away not to mention that FG rounds are fairly easy to dodge unlike sniper rounds which in most cases are too small to even see coming even with the trail all I am saying is that the FG doesnt need any nerfs and neither do RR's perhaps a slight rework but nothing major click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 12:19:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I have not heard of any nerfs in the works on anything more than a speculative level on the forums. I know what you mean but this happened to the splash damage of the FG too not many people complained about that either just some scrubs that cant even shoot if they don't stand still and I warned everyone about that too although I didn't go into it as much as I am now what really got me thinking was seeing some of the ideas the rat man had notes on most of which I see causing more problems then fixing the ones that already exist if anyone has actually used FG's extensively they can see that its not that easy and its not that hard to simply avoid them, most people that die to a FG stand completely still or even walk right in front of it or try to peek out when they know someone is holding a charge, I think that anyone claiming that its OP needs to learn how the game and specifically how the FG works in the first place, just like the bolt pistol how many have you seen lately complain about it? people only started complaining when certain people started a circle jerk making videos claiming it to be OP when the real issue is AA something that to my knowledge is not even a part of forge guns forge gun kills on moving targets require a great amount of skill unlike some other weapons that are just point and shoot the FG requires you to aim with no help of AA if I am correct while leading your target because the projectile speed isn't as fast as people think it is and it requires you to time your shots and charge time if you use the AFG while I agree that the vanilla FG is a bit cheap to use as it can hold the charge making it easier to mange against infantry but mostly only at range the best counter to a FG user I say is a laser rifle chances are they wont even get enough time to charge up before they die and you can move around so that they aren't likely to hit you, a sniper rifle user can easily get out of the range of a fg and kill it that way and a scout can easily kill a fg user that is careless as most don't even pay attention to their surroundings, however the most satisfying form of revenge is to simply use your own forge gun and kill them that way I really see no issue with the FG it has plenty of counter play and more then enough drawback to consider any more without proper compensation if anything this serves more as a warning to everyone so if anything does happen I can say I told you so, I know an update is around the corner so I am curious to see what changes will come and i will go ahead and predict the day being sep 25th click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 22:08:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Maybe do something about mod controllers as well , even though most say that nothing can be done , I see that Destiny took care of that issue . that's because Destiny fire rates are below the maximum believable threshold for the human finger pulling a trigger. which is completely fair since bullet cycling doesn't happen the same on more powerful rifles then it does low power ones it makes sense that a more powerful rifle holds a cylinder back for longer then a low power one its like those breathe strength testing machines the harder you blow the longer it takes for the ball to come back and settle but if you blow lightly you can keep constantly setting the ball at a fast rate if you understand my analogy or know how actual firearms work you may understand how this can be justified click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.09.13 19:32:00 - [6] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: There are other factors, as well, that I feel need to be mentioned. Power leveling in the Sniper Rifles is just silly. The damage difference from a Standard to a Prototype is 20 damage. From Prototype to Officer? 123. This coupled with the additional range and zoom capability of the Thale's means that the only one worth using at all is the Thale's. You also have to be crouching/holding completely still in order to get proper functionality out of a Sniper Rifle. As Breakin mentions above, hit detection and framerate play big roles but so too does the fact that unless you subject yourself to vulnerability you'll be fighting the sway as well. Map design is a huge factor, as many maps prior to Uprising 1.5 were bowl shaped, meaning most of your sniper perches are going to be set about the redline. After that, CCP took to making maps as flat as possible with little to no actual terrain gameplay to limit sniper play on or near objectives and also started occluding most objectives inside buildings or behind lots of terrain (this practically started the Scout/Sentinel uproar of 1.8, when they had their respective buffs and gameplay changes) because both of those specialities rule CQC. With no objective play from medium to long range, those playstyles can - and still do - usually go uncontested. So, the TL;DR as to why the Forge Gun is a preferable Sniper Rifle: - Guaranteed kill - Easier/more reliable Hit Detection - Multi-role capability (AV) - Damage scaling - Mobility - Map Design Everyone hates snipers but out of all the FPS games I've played, Dust 514 has been the only one that I know of that seemingly designed it's entire gameplay scope to exclude them... then tried to balance them in that atmosphere. this does not mean that the FG is a better sniper in fact it just means the sniper rifle needs to be reworked or at least looked at and one of the things that I agree with rat man to is to make them work more like snipers do in TF2 click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's